Lead Into It
Lead Into It is your go-to podcast for real, actionable leadership insights—no title required. Whether you're leading a team, a project, or just yourself, host Sara Greco brings you powerful conversations with leaders from corporate, nonprofit, hospitality, the U.S. military, and beyond. Each episode delivers tactical tools, fresh perspectives, and lasting inspiration to help you lead with confidence in your career and life.
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Lead Into It
51. Ownership, Leadership and Attitude with Mike Minihan (Part 1 of 2)
What makes a leader worth following?
In this episode, retired General Mike Minihan, former commander of Air Mobility Command, shares the leadership philosophy that shaped his 35-year Air Force career, centered on "OLA": Ownership, Leadership, and Attitude.
From his early days as a lieutenant to leading 110,000 airmen, General Minihan returns to one powerful truth: credibility starts with doing your job—and doing it well. He also reflects on the 2023 memo that made headlines, how it shaped perceptions, and what it revealed about his leadership style. Through it all, his clarity of purpose and commitment to readiness shine through.
Perhaps most striking is his view on "worthiness"—a question he asked himself often: Do I deserve this level of trust? That mindset drove him to lead with both conviction and care.
If you're in any kind of leadership role, this conversation is a must-listen.
And don’t miss part two next week, where we dig into mental health, legacy, and the human side of command.
Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.
Excited to be back with you!
You're listening to episode 51 of the Lead Intuit podcast. Welcome to Lead Intuit, the podcast that explores what it really takes to lead with courage, clarity and commitment. I'm your host, sarah Greco, and today I am honored to bring you a powerful two-part conversation with a leader whose voice, vision and vulnerability have shaped the Air Force and inspired leaders around the world. In this two-part special, I sit down with retired General Mike Minahan, former commander of the Air Mobility Command, to talk about leadership at the highest levels. In part one, we dig into General Minahan's leadership philosophy, his early career experiences and yes, that memo, the bold call to action that shook headlines and sparked conversation across the force. You'll hear how he views ownership, leadership and attitude as the foundation for any great commander, and why striving for perfection isn't about ego but about being worthy of the mission and the people you lead. In part two, we take the conversation deeper into mental health legacy and the human side of. In part two, we take the conversation deeper into mental health legacy and the human side of leadership. General Minahan shares openly about his own experience seeking therapy while in command, his father's impact on his leadership journey and what it means to lead in a way that's consistent, authentic and anchored in purpose. Even when things get tough, from the flight line to the front office, from discipline to decision-making in the gray areas, general Minahan doesn't hold back. So, whether you're a new supervisor, a seasoned commander or someone who just wants to lead a little better today than you did yesterday, this is a conversation you don't want to miss.
Speaker 1:Let's get into part one. Well, thank you, sir. So much for joining me on this podcast. I am so excited to talk with you today and learn. It's been great to kind of see your career, as I was working at AMC and now getting to see you on the other side. So welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, it's an honor to be back with you. You're my wing woman, so it's cool that the band's somewhat back together. And then my time at AMC was amazing, you know, I loved every second of it. The team, especially the you know, the team that babysat me for three years just did enormous things for the country, for the world, for all the goodness that happens in this nation. It's a treat to brag about them again and also be back with you, thank you.
Speaker 1:Ability command is the best, for sure there's nothing about it.
Speaker 2:I am not shy about sharing that.
Speaker 1:There's no bias here whatsoever. So how's retirement life treating you?
Speaker 2:It's good. I don't know if you're going to show the video during the podcast, but I'm rocking some longer hair and I've certainly got my facial hair going. I think I'm checking the normal dude retiree look right now. It's been fantastic. You know, I've got to be close to my parents. I live two blocks from my parents. My pop has some health issues that I'm helping out with and I moved down here just in time for the hurricane season and we got schwacked by two. So it was great to be in close proximity to them while we went through that challenge.
Speaker 2:And then just being able to go do things with my kids which I haven't been able to, you know, peel away from. You know all that. The balance is really cool. But I won't lie to you, it's a big adjustment. You know, when you're doing something for almost 35 years, when you're around that high functioning team, when you're around that juice, that adrenaline pump on a daily basis, when you're around that talent, you know both those that wear the uniform, the civilians, the family members all of that is tough, tough, tough to not be around right now. So, but I'm happy to be where I'm at and I'm happy to also continue to work mobility equities in my next life, you know.
Speaker 2:so that's what I'm trying to figure out how do I keep ringing the bell on what I think is important so that our airmen have everything they need to be successful, you know, in the battle skies, for wherever those may be?
Speaker 1:Definitely, and even just talking to you and seeing how your succession has kind of gone following, everyone still talks about General Minahan, what he contributed to AMC, and so it's so great to talk to you on this side and kind of see what you've learned and what you've brought to the table throughout your career. So it's a great opportunity to just talk with you about all the different things and leadership, and I mean we could go on and on. I think this episode could be five hours if we really wanted it to be.
Speaker 2:Hey, if you need that, I've got time for you.
Speaker 1:I also see that you're rocking an Air Force One polo shirt.
Speaker 2:I do. You know I never thought in a million years. You know I was the 19th Air Lufthansa Commander at Little Rock and then was told I was going to go command at the 89th and I was like you've got the wrong guy. I mean, there is no way. What I learned is that team in the 89th is magnificent, everything from the presidential support, you know, all the way down through the combatant commanders. Certainly you know the Congress, all the officials that are entitled to that travel Really really humbling to be around that. And you know the Air Force One team, you know, coming off of the election cycle right now they really really pour out, as does the entire 89th during the election cycle.
Speaker 2:So I thought I'd wear this to honor what they did during this election cycle, which was just really move mountains. All the diplomacy that's going on with all the hotspots right now is you know. In addition, they don't take a knee on all the missions that they need to do. So a shout out to the Sam Fox team and the PAG.
Speaker 1:And I think this is just a reminder for how much I mean we keep talking about mobility, but mobility does so much and is really a linchpin for the Air Force and for joint forces. And I mean, obviously I'm public affairs so we know all the talking points. But without mobility, doing all these what would almost be considered random missions that you don't think about, we wouldn't be successful in what we are as a country in a lot of different ways.
Speaker 2:You're right. So I've said that I've yet to be challenged on this, and I've said it on stage for almost the entire three years is that the mobility forces are the most relied upon force in the history of warfare. And I'm not saying that to be arrogant, I'm not saying that because I'm looking for sympathy. It's both a comment on everybody's success depends on us and it's also a comment on what's at stake if we don't get this right. You know. So you know I'm really. It's really not a something that I have to say for my ego, but you know we exist for other people's success in Air Mobility Command. We exist for other people's success, and so that's everything. You know the standard. You know the standard. You know four mission sets when it comes to airlift aero refueling, air medical evacuation and then the global air mobility support system, which is all the stuff on the ground to make it accessible. But it's everything from, you know, the port operations to the passenger operations, to DV lift. Certainly, you know, and DV lift has a unique aspect to it that most people don't think about it's the nuclear command and control aspect. You know people focus on the comfortable seats and perhaps the flight attendants, but they really need to focus on the nuclear command and control aspect of that mission, very, very important. So you know we intend to do everything right.
Speaker 2:In Air Mobility Command there's a wide spectrum of missions that we do. Each one requires precision, professionalism, you know, a dedication to make sure it goes right. One requires precision, professionalism, you know, a dedication to make sure it goes right. And, and I think you know, we do a tremendous job at that and there's always room for improvement. You're never there, but I will share this. You know the 89th.
Speaker 2:One of their calling statements is perfection is the standard, and I think people misinterpret that to say we are perfect. That's not the point. You know nobody's perfect. You know this is a human endeavor. Humans aren't perfect. So you never reach perfection.
Speaker 2:But, boy, you should sure try and you should have tough, honest debriefs during the times. You know at all times. But you know, especially when you have some challenges out there and some outcomes that weren't weren't ideal, and just make sure itself you hold your, make sure that you hold yourself accountable to the perfection standard and that you're always striving for it. I've got a lot of missions under my belt from the time I was a lieutenant to the time I was a general and I've never flown the perfect one, never. I've come very close on a handful of times, but the majority of the times we sit down with the rest of the crew we talk about all the things we could have done better, and then we endeavor to do it better the next time, and that's what it's about. It's about that that perfection is the standard and that strive for it. You know, and hopefully people better than me can meet it, but I'll, but I'll still keep trying as hard as I can.
Speaker 1:Well, and you talked about all those missions that you have under your belt. You did. You've retired at 35 years.
Speaker 2:Just shy of 35 years. Just shy of 35 years.
Speaker 1:So you got not only mission sets, commands, growth, RETC, and so there's a lot of leadership stuff that you learned in these past 35 years. I'd love to hear more about kind of what your leadership philosophy is and how that built from the time you were a cadet second lieutenant until you were a general.
Speaker 2:Right, you know the cadet time at ROTC at Auburn was tremendous. You know I was fortunate, especially my first professor of aerospace studies who was a C-130 pilot tremendous. You know, I was fortunate, especially my first professor of aerospace studies who was a C-130 pilot, which you know resolved me even more to be a Herc driver when I got into the Air Force. But you know, even before that, you know, plan A in my life was be a pilot in the United States Air Force. My dad's an Air Force officer, my granddad is an Air Force officer, my granddad's a plank holder in the United States Air Force. He flew bomber missions in World War II. He flew airlift missions in Korea and all I wanted growing up, anytime he was in the house, is I wanted him to tell me war stories, tell me war stories, tell me war stories. And so I didn't have plan B. Plan A is be a pilot in the United States Air Force. No, I was lucky enough to get into Auburn. I was lucky enough to get a pilot slot. I was lucky enough to have leadership that when I failed completely my freshman year academically and I mean that in the literal and figurative sense when I came back the summer between my freshman and sophomore year and completely changed majors, walked in I own my mistake with the professor of aerospace studies, colonel Butterfield, and I said this freshman year is not going to define me, it was all a loss. You got to trust me. Everything was a loss my freshman year. And I said I am going to fit the four-year degree that I'm changing to into the next three years. I will graduate on time and I still want to be a pilot in the United States Air Force. Now that is a tremendous risk that that colonel took on Cadet Mike Manahan to say you know I watched him be, you know, not optimal during his freshman year and then give me enormous opportunity to redeem myself over the next three years and still pursue plan A and then be able to go to pilot training.
Speaker 2:And then one thing I want to really emphasize here is my first squadron out of pilot training was the 61st Tactical Airlift Squadron at Little Rock Air Force Base, the Green Hornets. That was a tough squadron in a great way and there's some talks I've given in the past where I talk about they taught me the nobility of what we do, nobility being noble. Your value to that squadron was based solely on the performance, your performance in the cockpit. So I'm not saying that that is the exact leadership that I mimicked when I was a squadron commander, but I'm here to tell you that if you were not good in the cockpit so I'm not saying that that is the exact leadership that I mimicked when I was a squadron commander, but I'm here to tell you that if you were not good in the cockpit, you had no role in that squadron. So it taught me very early you better have your act together.
Speaker 2:Minahan in the cockpit, practicing radio calls, rehearsing the checklist I wanted to be the co-pilot that the squadron commander wanted to fly checklist. I wanted to be the co-pilot that the squadron commander wanted to fly with. I wanted to be the co-pilot that people picked to be in the right seat during their check rides. I wanted to be on the hardest missions and I worked hard to make sure that when I walked into the briefing room that they were going to do nothing but say, boy, lieutenant Minhan was prepared and had his act together. So you know, I learned it tough.
Speaker 2:Those were the old Vietnam. You know those. You know that was about the 20 year point when the Vietnam guys were retiring, and so the nobility and that commitment to be incredible at your job. And that's the point here Credibility at your primary job, at your job. And that's the point here. Credibility at your primary job matters most.
Speaker 2:And when I first came into Air Mobility Command as commander, I wrote a letter to the force saying what I value most is your ability to do your job. I'm going to grade you against the standard. I don't care about all the volunteer stuff. I don't care if you're a phenomenal exec. I don't care about the extracurricular activities. What I care about is how you do your job, and your job better meet standards. I'll do my job as a commander. I'll make sure that the organized training equip is there. I'll make sure that there's not an atmosphere that you have to be perfect, that you are allowed to learn and move along. But I want to be clear. The expectation is that you do your job well. If there is a magic wand and one spell to cast across an entire force, it would be do your job. That's it. We don't have to overthink this. So that's you know.
Speaker 2:I learned that from my very first squadron as I became a wing commander my time at Little Rock, I had an acronym called OLA, o-l-a, and it kind of, you know, developed a little bit from my experience growing up. My experience as a squadron commander and then getting to the wing level is it's all about ownership, leadership and attitude. You know ownership you have to own your outcomes. That's what that first squadron taught me, minahan own your outcome. Leadership sometimes being a good leader is being a good follower. Sometimes being a good leader is stepping into a role you weren't prepared for and just being able to handle the dynamics. And sometimes being a good leader means you're a commander or supervisor, and you need to be awesome at that. And you know, in the warmup session you and I talked about this our airmen deserve phenomenal supervision and commanders Period, dot, no excuse. And so you are allowed to learn, you are allowed to grow, but the expectation is that you're delivering phenomenal supervision and leadership.
Speaker 1:So that's leadership and then attitude.
Speaker 2:I think attitude matters most. You know there are some people that just always happen to be there when you need them. You know they just kind of find their way to where there's an issue and their leadership can make a difference. Positive attitudes, overcoming challenges, not being brought down by the things that are going wrong, having a impact beyond your designated role and so that people around you and organizations around you can feel the positivity coming out. I think those are all incredible.
Speaker 2:And then the last one I'll lead you with is the worthiness aspect of this right, and this is especially. You know, I got asked a bunch in the last three years what keeps you up at night? And not much keeps me up at night. Keeping me up at night is normal family stuff, like everybody else, but on the professional side, what keeps me up at night is my worthiness, and so worthiness matters. You know we have to be worthy of America's blood and treasure that are gifted to us as commanders and supervisors and airmen that are gifted to us as commanders and supervisors and airmen. I have to be worthy as an aircraft commander of the 50 Army souls in the back of my C-130 as we're going into Baghdad, balad, mosul, you name it. I have to be worthy.
Speaker 2:As a wing commander at Little Rock, of the 5,000 airmen in that wing getting after missions in Iraq and Afghanistan and all the things. As a commander of 110,000 airility Command, I have to be worthy, you know. So this worthiness is a thing. Am I saying it should keep you up at night to the point that you don't sleep? Absolutely not. Am I saying that you should ponder it every night as you close your eyes and say I had a great day, but I got to work harder tomorrow because my Airmen sure are working their tails off and therefore I've got to be worthy of it and I'm going to work just harder tomorrow to make sure that they have everything they need to be successful. So that's kind of a little bit of the maturity of the philosophy and then, as I categorized it, moving forward.
Speaker 1:And it's incredible all the distinctions that you brought up during this time, of when you were a cadet, when you were a lieutenant, kind of entering your first squadron, to when you led at AMC.
Speaker 1:And probably my favorite thing that you mentioned was the worthiness of being a leader, because a lot of times I feel like our leaders don't understand the responsibility that they take. By leading a team as even as little as two people, you are really taking those person's lives into your hand, even if you're not in the military. By being a manager of two people, even in the corporate world, you have the responsibility of being supportive to them, making sure that their career is good, because, no matter what, their career and their life at work is going to seep into their personal life, and so by you taking care of them at work, it seeps into their personal life and then everything is good, as long as they feel taken care of. That is a huge responsibility, and for them to dedicate their time to you during the day, it's a big responsibility and you should feel worthy of that.
Speaker 2:I think it's right. You know, the most important line in our oath of office is that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I'm about to enter, and it's a recipient of all the lines before it and it's also the line closest to God, you know. So that's how I justify it being, but it really speaks to what you just said, right, I mean, I will well and faithfully. Well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I'm about to enter. It's unfortunate, but I believe this.
Speaker 2:I think we've grown inappropriately into a situation where the safe play is rewarded best. So if you take no risk, you will neither highlight yourself positively or negatively and the system will move you along. But the penalty comes with the airman, as you mentioned people and the mission. So you will not move the needle on airman and mission and therefore it's an overall negative. So we've got to create a system where we say we really have to rise up, take risks, understand them, not take reckless risks, not take foolish risks, understand the risks we're taking the second, the third and the fourth orders. But we also are in a position where we can't make the safe play, especially the higher leadership you get. You've got to be bold. We say this all the time Be bold, take risks.
Speaker 2:But it's really hard to say well, what does that mean for you? What does that mean for you? What does that mean for you individually, airman? What does that mean for you? Squadron-wise, flight-wise, shift-wise, guard, mount-wise, you name it, whatever way you want to divvy up the teammates that you work with. What does that mean for us? So you know, I think that we've got to shift gears and we've got to say let's get out of this comfort zone, which rewards individuals, and let's get into this uncomfortable zone which rewards airmen and mission. That's where we need to drive.
Speaker 1:What would you say to the younger airmen maybe those that don't necessarily have the rank but do have the experience and the ideas, who want to take bold moves, that are encountering what I've heard as the frozen middle, where their managers or whomever is kind of stuck in what has been the status quo, but they know, if they took a bolder step, that things could change. What would you say to them?
Speaker 2:This is the hardest part, right? So I've been asked this question a lot. You're on a stage in front of 2000 people going, you know. Do you want them to give the middle finger to their commander? No, I don't want that. Do you want them to give the middle finger to their commander? No, I don't want that. But I want them to be relentless. Okay, but here, you know, actually I would. I would phrase my response to the command teams. You know, you, we're going to talk about my memo later, I believe. Yeah, that memo was one of nine memos, and one of the later memos was a line that said if there is a barrier between you executing the tasks in this memo, then I put my email and my phone number then call me.
Speaker 2:So we talked about exceptional leadership and supervision. Are you setting the conditions in your unit so that you are actually hearing from the professionals and the experts that are out there that have the things, or are you shutting it down inappropriately? You know, and if it's a, you know, and if it's an issue that is really a big one, my expectations is they'll, respectively jump echelon, you know. So, hey, squadron commander, you know I'm not saying tweet it or use Facebook or whatever. Sir, you know, I think this idea is so good enough I'm going to share it with the group commander or I'm going to share it with the group superintendent there's respectful ways to do that and continue to pushing.
Speaker 2:But I, you know, I love you know this Air Force was founded on being firebranded. You know, we were the Mustangs, we were the rebellion, okay, and we've kind of turned into the entity we rebelled from. You know, if we're not careful, we will be the lethargic status quo. Only look at things. You know things in terms of platforms, don't look at things in terms of effects. And so we need to embrace the people that are out there and relentless with the crazy ideas.
Speaker 2:It doesn't mean that everything that they want is going to come true, but it should mean that everything that they want should be heard and considered strongly. So I realize it's a little delicate. It's easy for me to say right, it's harder for an airman, first class to do that. I get that, but I want commanders that actually set expectations and say I'm going to give you a venue to be heard. You might not get yes, but if it's a no, it's going to be a no, with a qualification and hopefully, a path to get to yes, and I would never in any part of my career want somebody that could help us win be unheard. I mean, we got to set conditions better than that.
Speaker 1:And the amazing people that are in our Air Force, the military, the breadth of their experience and their ideas. We don't know what's possible yet because we haven't heard all of these crazy ideas. Imagine if we had heard all of the crazy ideas. Even if they're wrong, you never know what they might spin up. A wrong idea can spin up a good idea. I think that that's what you were encouraging during your time at Mobility Command. I mean, even now there's risk that's been taking place, but it's experimental risk to see what's possible, and that's when it comes to how long we can keep planes up in the air, which is huge. That's a huge part of what our capabilities lie into. So by taking exceptional but experimental risk, you can kind of see what's possible, and seeing the possibilities is where your potential for growth kind of lies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, you know. So I went to an ALS class pretty early in my command the first year, not in the first couple of months, but maybe at the one-year point. And you know, I asked the students you know there's 50-something in the room and I said, hey, give me an example.
Speaker 2:You know, when General Brown says accelerate change give me an example of acceleration or change, or give me an example where you're taking risk. And God bless them. They were unable to answer the question. You know, in answering the question they were actually asking the question. Again, it's not their fault. I'm not critiquing them, you know. And so you know.
Speaker 2:When someone would raise their hand and say, do things quicker and better and more efficiently, I'm like, yes, yes, but give me an example where you or your unit did something. They couldn't do it, so then that resulted in more homework for them. I said, okay, I'm coming back tomorrow and I'm going to go around and I'm going to say give me an example where you could take risks. I'm not looking for the airplane mechanic to work on me in the dental chair. Okay, that's not the type of risk I'm looking for. But go and show me where you can look at accelerate and change, where you can look at take risk, and tell me the things in your job jar that you could do differently. That would be awesome.
Speaker 2:The next day was amazing. I mean, you know we were running out of pen and paper to keep up with the crazy idea. So that's a reflection of their leadership and commanders that they couldn't answer that question. So who sat down with the airmen of those units, with General Brown's accelerate change or lose, and said this is what it means to us? Who sat down with the airmen and went through action order you know name, name, whatever, bravo and said how can we trim bureaucracy out of our organization? Who sat down with my memo as a commander or supervisor and said what does this mean to us? What is Minahan requiring of us? And I think you'll find not too many people take that extra level and say hey, this is what it means to us and this is what I'm looking for. But what a great world it would be to activate exactly what you talked about when it comes to the power and the imagination and the curiosity of our airmen and unleash that. They're incredible. They're incredible.
Speaker 1:They're incredible. Get the old dudes out of the way. The most random ideas, and a lot of them are very strange and weird, but some of them are spot on and you'll never know, unless you weed through all of the other ones, you're like actually that one might work. It sounds crazy, but it might work.
Speaker 2:I love it. Well, I love that atmosphere. You know, you know there's you gotta have some governance. I mean, I'm, you know, you know, even moving forward in these realms, you got to have governance, but you know. So that's where you know that I was lucky that that you know that happened fairly early on my command, because it taught me about the importance of holding the command echelon accountable to the. Hey look, you know, my expectations are this. My expectations are you're taking this, you are sitting down and you are discussing what it means for us, because I don't want to lose, accelerate change or lose. I'm not up for that last or lose. So here's how Mike Minahan and AMC and this awesome team that we have is not going to lose. So, anyways, I think you know that was very good, but it gets at unleashing the power of what already exists.
Speaker 1:So kind of going into something that was already mentioned. But I would love to talk a little bit about the memo. You can go ahead and roll right into that, if that's okay with you, and I'd love to hear kind of your thoughts and if you want to go ahead and give a quick background on it. And then I'd love to hear kind of what happened after that memo, especially seeing from a public affairs perspective what I saw kind of happened that way too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, god bless public affairs. So it's funny because it's known as the memo, and even on my LinkedIn post this morning I put hashtag memo. So you know I'm calling it the memo, but it really was an order. You know, and I had been in command about a year not quite a year and a half where it was the beginning of 2023 in late January, and this was going to be the summer of consequence for my command. You know I had pushed as hard as I could for this exercise mobility guardian to be a really bold commitment and statement on getting mobility up to the challenge of the Pacific. Up to the challenge of the Pacific, and it was apparent to me during that time that even though there was strong resonance, there wasn't strong resonance throughout the entire echelon of command. So I'm talking every diversity that you can pick Guard, active Duty, reserve Officer, nco, senior NCO, all the way down to the newest airmen in the ranks. You know how do I heal away the challenges that comes to the penetration of message and really be. Hey, this is, you know, the day, the, even though the memo was leaked before february, it was a one february. This is february. We've got till july to really put the throttles in and get after these things. So you know, as a commander, those are things I worry about. You know, the last thing I need is to take a swing at Mobility Guardian and not hit the ball out of the park. Too much riding on it, you know, too much for the two problem statements that we developed, not ready to fight and win inside the first island chain, not integrated, ready and agile enough to win, and there were some things that led up, you know, the ATA or AFA speech and things like that. So I wrote a memo which was really in order, saying here is my expectations and here are the things that I want this command to really focus on leading up to Mobility Guardian.
Speaker 2:So the memo was leaked, the classification stamp was stripped off it, somebody put it on social media and that started a pretty tough couple of weeks for me personally, the front office certainly, the PA team certainly, and you know it was on the Drudge Report, it was on all the news agencies, it went all around the world and I would say, for you know, first of all, you've not lived till you walk home and tell your wife you're about to be fired, and I would say I had anxiety for three days. I had anxiety for three days and on the third day I'll get a little spiritual here but the big man took it off my shoulders, okay, I mean, he just lifted it off of me. I gave it to him and I thought, even at day three here's what I've, here's what I know. I am right, I've learned something. I know who my friends are and this if and if this is God's way of putting me earlier to be with my dad, who has some health, uh challenges, then I'm good. I'm good. And after that it really was off my shoulders.
Speaker 2:Here's what I regret. I regret that it was leaked, okay, and I regret that that leak caused my leadership, some consternation, our success in Mobility Guardian, and it's responsible for our success as a command all the way through the end of my tour there. So I don't walk away from it. There were eight other orders that followed it. It had to go out on that venue because I had to get to all of Air Mobility Command. And I'll tell you right now. You know, people don't know that there were eight other orders and the reason is because they were on the classified side. That's what happens when you give orders on a classified network. Nobody knows about them. So that's why it went out on the unclass network.
Speaker 2:So you know I stand by those four things. You know I was right. I hope I'm wrong in that correctness. You know I'm driving a readiness that is going to both deter and, you know, deliver a decisive victory. I learned something. I mean there are some things I would do a little bit different, but not a lot. And then the amount of support, which doesn't come through so much in the public spaces, was unbelievable and, you know, gave me a lot of confidence moving forward. And then I am grateful that they chose not to relieve me because of me, not because of me. They chose not to relieve me Not because of me, not because of me. I was fully prepared for it. But I was grateful because we got to take that order and put it into action and deliver on everything it said we were going to do so.
Speaker 2:That's a unique opportunity to have and I'm grateful for those that extended me some grace, and I'm also ecstatic that we got to work that as hard as we did for my whole command. So that's my opening salvo on the order. How did I do?
Speaker 1:It sounds great. I appreciate that insight because, obviously, from the public affairs standpoint, I saw all of which was on the news and I saw some of the statements that were put out, and so it's a different it's always from a different lens of how you see things on the news versus what's actually happening behind the door on the computer. All of that, I think what stood out the most to me is that you decided to take a risk and you stood by that risk because you saw the importance of it. What would you say? Because I feel like this is starting to become a theme in our conversation but what would you say to those that, in their heart of hearts, know that there needs to be a risk taken, but they're scared of the consequences of it or they're scared of failing? What would you?
Speaker 1:say to those people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's good. Let me back up just a little bit. You might have to remind me of your question again, but I want to really highlight that. This gets back to that oath.
Speaker 2:I knew the order. I didn't recklessly put that. I weighed all the options on sipper and nipper and ran it through the process to get classified, and you know so. I knew it was prickly. You know, I knew it was prickly. I didn't think it would get leaked. There's some folks out there that think I did it on purpose. I didn't. You know I don't. I don't like to catch, have my leadership caught off guard. You know so. But I also knew it was needed.
Speaker 2:You know this gets back to that. You know that part of the oath of well and faithfully, you know. You know there there is a point in a career where you have got I mean, this is commander business. I am in. You know. God bless them. 110,000 of America's sons and daughters are counting on this command to do its organized training and equip so that it is successful on a battlefield, in a battle sky, battle sea. You name it, you know. So you can grade me on that. Okay, I don't want to be graded on. You know, get to that point, our homework will be graded in combat. You know, get to that point, our homework will be graded in combat.
Speaker 2:And if it's a failure, my lack of courage to issue the orders and do the command needed to make this command, you know, successful shouldn't be the shouldn't be what, what failed us. So you know, I, I realize exactly what you're asking here. You know there is a point in your career, what you're asking here. You know there is a point in your career. I mean, you know, first of all, you know 34, you know, if Mike Minahan's order caught you by surprise 32 years into my career, then you hadn't been paying attention for the last 32 years. Okay, I've not changed. Okay, no, I'm not saying that people need to, you know, hover over me and watch my whole 32 years. But that is consistent with who Mike Minahan is and how Mike Minahan leads, you know.
Speaker 2:So my first bit of advice would be you know you've got to lead like you, ok, and you've got to do things consistent, deliberate, thoughtful, all of that. You know, people that had problems with my order thought I was challenging civilian authority. I'm not, you know, trying to be cutesy with a prediction on China. I'm not, but I know that there needs to be tension on purpose and there needs to be tension on timeline. You got to be more sophisticated than fight tonight and there needs to be tension on timeline. You've got to be more sophisticated than fight tonight. Okay, and nobody cares about a timeline that may or may not happen in 2035.
Speaker 2:You can't possibly know what you need in the future until you know how you, what the commander, has to take into account and then move his organization forward or her organization forward, and doing it in a meaningful way.
Speaker 2:You know there's a joint team counting on Mike Minahan to be successful. There's a joint team counting on air mobility command to be successful, regardless of your role, and that's our highest obligation. That's our highest obligation. So you know, my advice would be to those that are out there that feel that they're on that cliff that I was on before I hit send on that, that need to say have I done everything I can to make everybody around me aware of this? Am I doing commander business in good order and discipline? Is it legal, moral, ethical? If all those boxes are checked, then at least if you're working for me, then I'm going to protect you. I'm going to do my best. Hopefully that's the atmosphere and the environment throughout the echelons here, but Americans are known for bold leadership and my expectation would be that that's rewarded, regardless of the service or the echelon that makes sense.
Speaker 1:It does, and it's at the place where, if we're too afraid to make change, then there will never be any change. We're only going to be at the status quo. It's going to take getting out of our comfort zone, taking risk and really taking a jump forward and figuring out what risk is important to you and I think where I what I'm hearing is that this was so important to you. You saw the potential for what could and couldn't happen, that you knew you needed to do something and your leadership style this was kind of your answer to that situation. All the problem solving all of what you saw was basically like we have to make a huge change here and unless I have some sort of tipping point that shows how dire it is or it could be, people aren't going to listen to me and I'm not saying it was like a scream out, saying like, listen to me.
Speaker 1:It was more of like hey, let's get our act together and really see what could possibly happen and we just need to prepare for it. And here's how we're going to prepare for it.
Speaker 2:And think about the data, the data points. I had right. I had the debrief of the Afghanistan withdrawal. I had the Ukraine response. I had a set of data points that gave me concern about not just the readiness of AMC but the readiness of the entire joint team we were supporting and what we really need to do to be able to explode into theater we were supporting and what we really need to do to be able to explode into theater. I mean, that's you know, it's not just you know. We're a system of systems, we're a family. We all need to have our act together.
Speaker 2:You know, it's probably the point where I realized I'm big into this role thing. You know, you look at your OPR and it says your job responsibilities. You know, even, as you know from your whole career in the Air Force. It tells you what you look at your OPR and it says your job responsibilities. You know even, as you know from your whole career in the Air Force, it tells you what you're responsible for, but it doesn't really address what your role is. Examples um, my role as a squadron commander of the 40th Airlift Squadron, screaming Eagles, was to lead for three years doing four months on, four months off in the desert. My role was to be successful in combat under a brutal ops tempo Four months on, four months off, four months on, four months off, four months on, four months off, forever. My role as the 19th Airlift Wing Squadron Commander was to be the commander that put mobility standards on a former AATC base. So it used to be an AATC base, two commanders before me. It went to Air Mobility Command. He divorced the wings. The commander right before me created an identity. My job was to bring the mobility standards.
Speaker 2:When I was the commander of an 89th Airlift Wing, what we talked about earlier. My job was to survive the 2012 elections. Okay, I thought so. Those are roles Different than responsibilities. Think about your role. What's my role here? Your role, what's my role here?
Speaker 2:What I thought my role was going into the AMC command was I thought my role was going to be get AMC ready to fight, and what I learned is that it's get everybody ready to fight, okay. So I'm not being audacious here. I'm not sticking my screwdriver in someone else's job jar, but I am the intersection of your readiness and my readiness. I know whether you're packed up and really ready to go. I know whether you can meet your doc statement or not.
Speaker 2:I know if the C-17 is sitting on the ramp and you say you're ready but there's nobody behind the airplane. I know what's in the back of the airplane and whether it's dripping fuel and has to land prior to crossing the pond because you didn't drain it. I know if the passengers are really packed up and manifested the way they should be. I know if your cargo is Hasdex certified, dip clearance certified you name it, I, you know. So I got this role as the help, if you will. That has an appreciation for people's readiness beyond just mine, and so that's really what it turned into. Mobility guardian was a big part of it, but you know there's an enormous amount of you know, I think if there's airman, leader, supervisors out there wondering, you know, do I need to be provocative this way? You know my gut feeling is there's something around them that needs to be fixed aggressively, that their instinct is probably right.
Speaker 1:And there's ways to do it without being like there's living in your authenticity. To do it without being like there's living in your authenticity there's and being a good leaders. There's ways to make change without coming off like a jerk or, yeah, passive, aggressive or all of these things. There's ways to do it appropriately, to figure out what works for you well, and this is, this is a fact.
Speaker 2:I mean you can choose another. I mean there's amazing airmen behind me, you know. If you don't like mike minahan, pick another, you, you know, you've you, I mean you've. You have to have the honest conversation anytime you're doing something like this, that they that might not be palatable, but that palatability should never reverse engineer your way into how you command and get your echelon ready.
Speaker 2:You know this is about. You know your command duty is to put a team on the field that can dominate and win, not catch our partners off guard by our lack of readiness or ability. I mean, can you imagine a scenario where the president thinks something's good and it's not, you know? Or the Joint Chiefs, or the SecDef, you know. So that's actually the worst crime, you know, is that there's an expectation that your readiness can deliver and it actually can't. So let's be on the side of aggressive attainment of readiness and capability to dominate the battlefield, battle skies, battle seas, you know, whatever battle space, you name it, and make sure that our you know it's not up to us whether we're used in combat or not. We'll leave that to the civilian minors. Okay, but the basis, the foundation of trust that has to exist is that the team that I command, the team that you command, you know is ready to go.
Speaker 1:And this goes back to where you were talking about accelerate change or lose. And you're talking about the lowest airman. When you have to be that translation within all the groups, so that you can describe sitting at the room with joint chiefs of staff, with president of the United States, you, as the youngest airman, should be able to understand why the president needs you to turn that wrench on that plane. And that is command. That's like a huge part of command when it comes to understanding and being able to translate. So if they understood their responsibility of being ready tonight and ready to fight tonight, all of that, then they would be, I don't want to say more eager to do their job, but more dedicated, creating that perfection that the 89th was talking about. Like driven by perfection. That that's all of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you got, you're on it and you have. So the you know this is, you know as you grow up, right, you grow, you know. I'm often asked what you know, what do you wish you had learned earlier than you than you actually learned it? Well, you know, I come from a crew airplane so I always appreciated the efforts of the collective, how it all comes together, but never really got that deep PhD level perspective on that till you're at the. You know squadron command and hire. You know it, it it really is, and you know an entire team that makes it go. Your importance to the mission isn't proportional to your proximity to the cockpit. So I get it. You know, at the end of the day, the crew's going to go forward. Right, they're going to do their thing.
Speaker 2:And the ties of all the support will be severed and they'll go out and execute. It'll be awesome. But everybody's important in getting that out. It doesn't matter how close you are to the coffee. I mean you matter whether you're making a box lunch, turning a wrench, checking a weather forecast, doing a deployment line, doing a PA article. I mean it's not being overly sensitive to everybody on the team. It is fact.
Speaker 2:I got one story, you know I was working for a phenomenal wing commander at Travis, jim Vetri, and we were getting ready for an operational readiness inspection which you know are great fun and we were launching out on the first plane and an engine stand. We're waiting on an engine stand. Well, the engine stand went through the inspection. When the inspection was done, the brake didn't get released on it. On one of the wheels. The tug drove the engine stand to the airplane. By the time it got to the airplane the wheel was now half a wheel because it just got ground down. What does the loadmaster do? He rejects the load, or she rejects the load because it's not safe to get on the airplane. It can't be brought up on the airplane without causing damage, you know. So the entire wing shut down because of release the brake on the engine stand.
Speaker 2:That's not a comment on that one individual, that's a comment on the entire system. You know, do I wish that person had done it Absolutely, but I also wish everybody else that walked past it had done the same thing. So that's how it's all connected and it's just facts. You know you're touching mission you don't even know about every day and there's somebody counting on you to get your job done. So I think this is a critical piece.
Speaker 2:This actually goes all the way back to the very beginning. Man, magic wand, do your job all day long, every day, all the time, and and if we can get to that point, you know some some things we don't need to overthink. You know, if you're a pilot, be the best daggone pilot you can be. If you're in the support field, do it all. Awesome. Two standards exceed the standards, same thing for maintenance, same thing for medics Fly, fix, support, all the things. And that would be a great place to start from and I think we're heading that way. It just needs to be really highlighted that that's what mattered most. When everything gets, you know, a little bit cluttered, you know, make the main thing, the main thing and the main thing is your job.
Speaker 1:That's great. Our airmen are important, they do wonderful things and it's incredible seeing and hearing all these stories from your career. That's it for part one of my conversation with General Mike Manahan. Next Tuesday we'll be back with part two. You won't want to miss it. Thanks for listening to another episode of Lead Into it. If you enjoyed this episode, it would mean a lot to me if you would leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify to help future listeners. If you want to learn more about the podcast or me, go to leadintoitco. That's leadintoitco. Thanks again.
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