55. Science Meets Leadership: Navigating the Unknown with Diane Fraser

This week on Lead Into It, I’m excited to share my conversation with Diane Fraser, the amazing director of the Emerald Coast Science Center right here in Fort Walton Beach. Diane’s journey is such a cool one—she started out as a forensic scientist and eventually stepped into leading a community science center, turning it into a vibrant hub of learning and discovery.

In our conversation, she opens up about what it took to navigate financial challenges, survive a pandemic, and keep creating innovative STEM programs that inspire curiosity in kids (and adults, too).

Diane’s story is all about the power of curiosity, resilience, and community. She shows us how one person’s vision can challenge stereotypes in science, spark joy in learning, and leave a lasting impact.

Whether you’re a science enthusiast, an aspiring leader, or just love a good story about perseverance and passion, you’re going to get so much out of this episode.

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Chapters: 

00:00 Journey into Science: Early Inspirations

05:17 The Role of Inquiry in Science

09:13 Balancing Family and Career: A Mother's Journey

14:14 Transforming the Science Center: A New Chapter

19:20 Leadership and Community Engagement

24:03 Navigating Challenges: The Impact of the Pandemic

29:05 Navigating Challenges During the Pandemic

31:36 Transforming Spaces and Community Engagement

33:25 Building Resilience and Community Relationships

36:27 Listening to Community Needs

37:29 Empowering Women in STEM

41:48 Inspiring Future Generations in Science

44:10 The Importance of Hands-On Learning

47:43 Leadership Challenges and Organizational Culture

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

Excited to be with you!

Transcript

Sara Greco (00:01)
You're listening to episode 55 of the Lead Into a Podcast.

Sara Greco (00:12)
Welcome back to Lead Into It, the podcast where we explore leadership through real conversations and inspiring stories. I'm your host, Sarah Greco, and today's guest is one of those people who makes you think, wow, I want to catch some of that energy. I'm sitting down with Diane Frazier, the powerhouse director of the Emerald Coast Science Center. Diane's journey is such a fun mix. Imagine starting off as a forensic science enthusiast, and then through a series of unexpected twists.

becoming the driving force behind a thriving science center. Along the way, she built resilience, embraced innovation, and stayed committed to sparking curiosity, as well as making science exciting for her entire community. In this episode, we'll dive into her story, the challenges, the wins, and her vision for blending leadership and science in ways that truly inspire. So grab your headphones and head out on your daily walk.

or grab your favorite drink and settle in. Get ready for a conversation that proves science isn't just about facts and formulas. It's about creativity, critical thinking, and human connection. Let's get into it.

Sara (01:20)
Hi, Diane. Thank you so much for joining me on Lead Into It today. I'm so excited to talk to you.

Diane (01:25)
Well thanks for inviting me, Sarah. I'm excited to chat with you too.

Sara (01:28)
I am used to you having some sort of science-y earrings or necklace or t-shirt and I'm sad to see you don't have it on today.

Diane (01:36)
I don't, I don't, sorry.

Sara (01:38)
She

has this entire wardrobe, I swear. I do. like based on science. And if it's not earrings, it's a necklace. If it's not necklace, it's a t-shirt. And it's always so fun to see what she comes up with. She truly is a branding of herself when it comes to science.

Diane (01:54)
Well, you've got to represent, right?

Sara (01:55)
Exactly. So I'm excited to talk to you. We're going to talk about the Science Center, of course, kind how you got there. But where I would love to start is kind of where your journey with science began and how you developed your love for science. Did that start at a young age? Like, how did it intrigue you?

Diane (02:11)
Okay, so I can remember being a kid and this is going to sound stupid, but I loved mysteries. So I started reading like Agatha Christie, Dorothy Sayers, all of that, you know, under the covers with the flashlight, you know, after your parents told you to go to bed. And I used to watch this show called Quincy and Quincy was a forensic pathologist, a medical examiner.

And I thought, oh my gosh, that's what I want to be when I grow up. I want to be like Quincy. Now that I think about it, it's a terrible show because it was very like, I mean, wouldn't sit well, it didn't age well, maybe we should say that. But I think that was like my first initial pass. then, so I just studied science with the idea that I was going to go become a forensic pathologist.

And then I think when I got in college, I got afraid of going to medical school. So I don't think that I had the courage to do that. So I was a chemistry major. And then I went and got a master's in forensic science. I worked in the lab, like behind the scenes.

but not actually ever did go to medical school. So I think that that's kind of how I landed up in science. work as a research chemist for the Food and Drug Administration.

Sara (03:34)
As a pathologist, you have to go to medical school to be a pathologist. Okay, what's the difference between a pathologist and scientist? Forensic for everyone else who's not scientific.

Diane (03:36)
Yes.

No, awesome. Yeah. A forensic scientist is a person that is actually a scientist. So if you're going to be a forensic scientist, you're going to be at the laboratory. You're going to be working with bodily fluids or tissue samples, or you could also be doing like ballistics analysis. You could be doing drug analysis.

But so I went and got a master's in forensic science, and then did toxicology for a number of years, and then was a research chemist at the Food and Drug Administration for five years at their forensic chemistry center, which was located in Cincinnati, Ohio. So when we came back here to the Fort Walton Beach area, I

I quit working. we had two young kids and my husband traveled all the time for his work. So I didn't work for a number of years, but I got an adjunct professorship at University of West Florida. And I teach intro to forensic science and their criminal justice program there. That's so cool. So it's fun because I still get to do those kinds of things and talk about those kinds of things that I went to grad school for.

And it makes you stay relevant and pay attention to what's happening inside of those fields. And as an adjunct professor, it's wonderful. You just go in, you teach your class, and then you go home. So you don't have to deal with all of the politics of being a college professor or as an adjunct. There's so much, or previously there had been so much latitude in what you could teach and you were in charge of what you presented.

⁓ to your students. I think that might be changing a little bit now, but we'll have to sort of wait and see how that all plays out.

Sara (05:23)
Yeah. And so you always kind of science. What about it? What about science interested you?

Diane (05:32)
I think it's the inquiry. I think it's that question asking, that ability to sort of say, OK, I have this question. How do I answer this question in a methodical way? are my variables? What can I control? What can I not control? And I think that's the thing that people get scared of science because they think that they have to be really smart or they have to take

chemistry or organic chemistry or, you and that's not the case at all because science is just literally asking a question and then researching it and then making a hypothesis and then figuring out was your hypothesis correct.

if you look at someone like Jane Goodall, you know, she went into that without being a scientist to begin with, right? But she did what all good scientists do and that is they make observations and they write it down. And basically that's what you need to do. You know, that's, that's how she started out. And then later on she went back.

and then did go to school and then, you know, officially study, you know, the area that she was working in. But that was one of the great things about her because she came to it with no preconceived notions. And she allowed that experience of just making those observations as untainted observations. And so as scientists, we have to be free of those biases and prejudices when we

ask these questions. And then we have to design these experiments in ways that we're not putting our thumb on it. So it's just going to be whatever it's going to be. And that's exciting because you don't really know what the answer is going to be. And sometimes you get it dead wrong. And sometimes you're like, OK, well, and that's fine too.

because I think sometimes we learn more from mistakes that we've made or things that we've done wrong than we do from when everything goes right.

Sara (07:27)
It sounds like science is a metaphor for life. You think you're going to get it right and then sometimes you get it wrong. You kind of take steps and ask questions and see what the answers are.

Diane (07:37)
Exactly, right? And then we learn from it. Ideally, we learn from it so that if we are faced with that same situation again, we're like, okay, well, let's not do that. That didn't work out right the first time. So what can I do? What changes need to be made to make it more successful?

Sara (07:52)
Right. And then you had said that you took a break to help raise your kids and you have, they're both in college and doing really great things now, right? No, they're both like adults doing great things.

Diane (08:04)
Yeah. So my oldest daughter did go to medical school. So right. And she just completed her residency and started her job as she does internal medicine. And she's working in an outpatient clinic in Denver. So and then ⁓ my younger daughter.

Sara (08:20)
Wow, that's amazing.

Diane (08:23)
is an environmental scientist and she just started a new job. She's in Panama City. very cool. Yeah.

Sara (08:30)
I guess the science aspect kind of went for them too.

Diane (08:35)
Yeah, my husband's pretty outdoorsy, so I think that that influenced my younger daughter into the environmental field.

Sara (08:41)
That's really cool. And so as you were raising them, kind of took a break from the career workplace. But it sounds like you volunteered a lot during that time when you could.

Diane (08:52)
Yeah. You know, I was very fortunate to be like a full-time mom and my husband traveled a lot. And so I got to really focus on my kids and the activities that they were doing. So I was like the Girl Scout leader and the room mom and the bake sale queen and the PTO president. Yeah. And the chaperone on all the field trips. But that was a real privilege because

Not every parent has that option or opportunity. so I felt it was really important to be there, not just for myself and my kids, but to also be there for those kids whose parents didn't have the luxury of being able to be there. I can't tell you how many vanfuls of stinky kids I drove all over the state for cross-country meets.

So when ⁓ my daughter was in high school and was on the cross country team, like the whole girls team fit in my van. I had a Toyota Sienna, so it was a really small team though. that was an absolute joy and privilege to be like, know, mama Frazier. And the van's name was Gloria.

Sara (09:52)
What kind of van did you have?

Diane (10:07)
Yeah, so we would all get in Pile into Gloria and we would go to Titusville or to Tallahassee or to Mariana. And it was just such a treat, such a treat to be able to do that.

Sara (10:18)
It's amazing. Who came up with the name Gloria?

Diane (10:20)
even know how it happened. But somehow or another she was named for it. She gave us 230,000 miles of joy.

Sara (10:24)
The kids love her so much.

Thanks, Gloria.

⁓ So as you were going through the journey of all the mom things and helping with everyone else too, I mean I've seen you do everything now. So I can only imagine how you were back then because I see you everywhere. You were everywhere in this community. So at some point you got involved in the local science center here in Fort Walton. How did that come about?

Diane (10:55)
So when the kids were younger, I did a little bit of teaching at the science center. And I taught the science spots for TOTS class because my kids could be with me when I was doing that. And then once they both were in elementary school, a couple of years later, I started teaching a hands-on science program at Kenwood Elementary School, which is where my kids went. So I just did it like one day a week.

Um, and then the different grade levels would come through. I had a lot of latitude. Um, I could just do whatever I wanted. It was just like a science enrichment. So it was like an extra thing. It was like funded by the PTO and, um, I really, really enjoyed that. Really enjoyed that. Um, and I think it, there was an article in time magazine and it came out, I don't know, probably 20, 25 years ago.

And it was talking about how we teach science and how we talk about science and how fun science can be. Like when you're in elementary school and it's all hands on and you're doing, you know, growing things and taking things apart and stuff like that. And then when we get to middle school, it gets into that like really dry can be like a lot of memorization and we lose kids. And then when they get to high school,

you have to already pick what track you're going to go on. know, like that, that middle school math class, that first middle school math class that you take sort of sets the trajectory of whether you're going to get to calculus as a senior or whether you're going to, know, and you don't think about that, right? You don't think about, well, if I'm going to be in algebra or pre-algebra in sixth grade, I am setting this course. Yeah.

of what my math's gonna be. And then your math is also gonna set the course for like what your college readiness is gonna be or how competitive you're gonna be when you're getting ready to apply to colleges and things like that. And I just think that we need to do a better job of number one, letting kids and parents know that early on. And if you lose a kid in middle school,

in science, it's really hard to bring them back. Really hard to bring them back into the fold. Because when they get to high school, then they have so much more selectivity in what courses they choose to take. And it's a tough sell for science classes.

Sara (13:20)
Especially

when their first impression is whatever it was in middle school and if they had a bad impression, they're like, well, definitely not going to pick that.

Diane (13:26)
Right, right. And so I just think that we don't actually share how wonderful and how that critical thinking skills that you use in science, how much they will do for you across the board in every decision making process the rest of your life.

Sara (13:41)
Like I mean you'll show your story, but I love the way that you talked about what intrigued you about science because you applied it as Like you entered into the Science Center. It was so interesting to think about that but just like so you were inspired by Kind of seeing how kids interacted with science and how it's trans is transformative in their early years in middle school, especially So how did that bring you to the Science Center?

Diane (14:07)
So I had a friend that was on the board of directors at the science center and she was getting ready to roll off the board. And so she's like, Hey, Diane, think you'd be a good person. You know, would you take my position on the board? And this was like 2013, 2014, something like that. And I was like, okay, sure. Yeah, I think I can do that. And by that time,

My older daughter had just graduated and my younger daughter was in high school. So I joined the board and it was at the exact same time. So a couple of things happened at the same time. The Science Center had been leasing the space they were in at the landing from the city. The city had decided they wanted to do something else with that. So the Science Center had to say, okay, what's going to happen to us?

the board went looking for new places to land, what's going to be the next facility. And at the same time, the city put what was then the city's Creative Senior Center on the market. they were going to open it up to sell. There's some caveats on how the area was zoned because of the land donation, but they put that space on the market. And so the board said, OK.

They looked at several different locations and they said, okay, well, let's talk to the city and let's purchase the creative senior center from the city. So all of this happens in the space of about a year. So November of 2014, they were gonna move.

October, November, we're going to move from the landing. We're going to move. We're purchasing this. The city holds the note. They're our banker. We're going to make a monthly mortgage payment to the city. So, um, the then director gets, takes a job as a full-time teacher. And I had volunteered to come in and help, like help during the moving process as a board member to help during the move.

⁓ because my daughter had just gotten her driver's license. So I didn't have that 7 a.m. drop off, 145 pickups. So now I had a lot more latitude and freedom in my schedule. So as I'm coming in and volunteering and I'm like, hey, I can do this and I can do that and just cleaning and packing and unpacking and all of the things. And

the director decides to leave and he decides to leave like with a two week notice. So we're right in the middle of this move, right in the middle of setting up the science center.

And it's a huge, the finances were not good. There was really no money in the bank and we're taking on a mortgage plus taking on the owner operators of the facilities. So there's, you know, three different kinds of insurances and if something breaks, you know, we've got to figure out how to fix it. And the building was built in 1977. It wasn't designed to be a science museum. And so there's so many different things, moving parts and

The board chair at the time came to me and said, well, you know, I think you should, you know, you've been here, you know what's going on. You've got the time. Would you step up as interim director just to get us in here and get the building open, set up and opened? And then we were going to open the Sunday before Thanksgiving of that year. And then in January, we'll start looking for like a legitimate person to take the job.

And I was like, okay. And I went and had this conversation with my husband and my husband's goes, I think it's going to break your heart.

Oh, and I think he thought it wasn't going to work out. I mean, and if you on paper, if you you looked at it on paper, you would be like, oh, I'm getting the heck out of here, too. I mean, like nobody, nobody would have said, oh, this is a great idea. You know, but I can't stress how much ignorance and enthusiasm.

and how far that will take you in life sometimes. Because you don't know how scared you should be, right? I mean, you know you're scared, right? But you don't know how legitimately terrified you should be. And you're just kind of like, oh, this is going to be fun. Sure, we can do that. And so that was kind of what got us through. And we got opened. And then when they came back in January, they're like, OK, well, now we can start looking for a legitimate person.

Right. And I was like, Oh, wait a minute. I just spent every single day for the past three months. You know, I'm like, no, no, I want this. This is, this is what I feel like I was supposed to do. Right. I mean, you know, you, you sometimes you get that really rare opportunity to be who you think you're supposed to be in the place that you're supposed to be. And I really felt this is something that I've been preparing for my whole entire life.

Sara (18:35)
Yeah.

Diane (18:53)
is to talk about science. And now I've been giving this whole entire platform to do it. Literally. Yeah, exactly. I think they were just absolutely amazed that somebody was willing to still stay here and take that task on. Yeah, sure.

Sara (19:08)
sure. appreciate everything that you've done.

Diane (19:14)
And it has definitely, I mean, it's been almost 11 years now. And there were some very, very, very scary times. There was some months without taking a paycheck. There was a lot of financial sacrifices and a lot of just sweat equity. my God, there was...

For probably the first four years, I cut the grass. I mean, I cut the grass with my little John Deere.

Sara (19:41)
And it's not a small feet. There's a lot of grass.

Diane (19:44)
There was a lot of grass, right? So it's definitely a labor of love. But I feel like it's been such a privilege to be able to do it and to have the freedom to be able to kind of just grassroots, let's just make this thing. Let's just do this, right? Let's paint it this color. changed my mind. Now let's paint it that color.

Sara (19:48)
Mm-hmm.

Diane (20:04)
All of that has been available to us as we've kind of morphed and grown over the past 11 years.

Sara (20:11)
It's because you've made it so that there's full ownership of the success and embracing the challenges that the Science Center has and kind of going with that.

Diane (20:21)
Yeah, and I have been really, really fortunate and blessed with the people that have come along on the ride with me. I have an amazing, amazing team right now. And I think that's one of our strengths. mean, it's 100 % of why we're still here is that they bring their energy, enthusiasm, and ideas. And it started out as like,

Diane's vision, that I realize I don't always have the right answer. I don't always have the best answers. I don't always have the best. Just because I see it one way in my mind doesn't mean that everybody else sees it that way and might want it to be that way. So I've gotten better about saying, OK, all right, yeah, let's do it that way. And that ownership does, I think, bring ⁓

pride and stick to it. ⁓

Sara (21:16)
Yeah, and keeping it together and making people feel like they're empowered to make decisions. Now, I just want to go back just a little bit because you say you're like, you do have a great team and I believe that. But I also, based off of me knowing you for a little bit of time, I can see that it would be easy to follow you.

Diane (21:35)
to follow me?

Sara (21:36)
Yeah, to follow you as a leader. So it's so funny because you're like, yeah, I mowed the grass. And then you're like, well, I kind of get stuck in my decisions. And I'm like, they were probably like, well, she mowed the grass. Like, yeah, she can make the decision because she put in her sweat equity for this. And so I think that just knowing you and how invested you are, was easy to create. It wasn't easy. I shouldn't say that. was people were willing to follow you and to see that.

you had a vision and they're like, I wanna be part of this vision. And I wanna go back to the conversation with your husband, you telling him about you becoming the interim director. What made you, so you hear him say that I think it's gonna break your heart. What was the other voice that you heard saying to go for it? Because you had,

two voices happening right now is yours and your husband's and that's hard and challenging.

Diane (22:31)
Right. think he understood. He's a business person, you know, and I think he understood what we were going to be up against. you know, I didn't have any business experience, none whatsoever, right? I didn't have any nonprofit experience. I mean, I was a scientist, basically. So I had the heart, but I did not have the head to be able to do what we did.

and I think he was just concerned that it wasn't going to work. And he was concerned about what that would mean to me when I invested all of that time and energy into it. And then it didn't pan out.

Sara (23:12)
So I think this shows how much leading with your heart and just going for it can make a true impact.

Diane (23:19)
Okay.

Sara (23:20)
I mean, I wasn't there.

And it's one of those where it's like, if you're like, I'm going to create this investment and there's no path, like we don't know what the path forward looks like, which I think is where your scientist brain came in and was like, well, we'll take this one step. And you talk about ignorance a little bit, how that was actually a really useful tool because you're like, well, I'm just going to take one step. So you say it's ignorance. I think it was your science brain.

where it was like, you're like, well, we actually don't know what the result's going to be. And so we're going to take this one step. OK, that worked. The next step. That worked. The next step. And so you just continue to test whatever possibilities you were thinking.

Diane (23:59)
Yeah, and

you're giving me so much credit right now.

Sara (24:02)
This is credit that you have earned. Stop that. And so I think that when it comes to, and this is where I'm going into leadership, like it's easy to follow somebody who has the heart, who's ready to step in in places of the unknown and take that step. And cause there's so many people who are afraid to take a step and you are willing to take that step and you're like, well, I don't know. I mean, the books look awful.

But I love science and I think I know how much my kids love science and I've seen the power of kids loving science and so we're just going to go with it. And I'm going to make an assumption. I'm assuming that nobody else wanted to take this on because it seemed so adopting.

Diane (24:38)
I will tell you this, the previous director, not the one that had left who's in the field, but the person that was the director before that came in one day right after we had opened and goes, huh, I think there'll be a fire sale here next year. Yeah. Whoa. Yeah.

Sara (24:55)
I would have been like, get out, you're never welcome back. I mean, how rude.

Diane (24:59)
But I but you know and I and I think you know sometimes when people say those times things to you you just get you get all bowed up right yeah yeah well we'll see yeah

Sara (25:09)
They probably fed your fire a little bit. ⁓

Diane (25:11)
Right. ⁓ But I think, too, the thing that saved us was the relationship building. I think that there was a need in the community. The Science Center had done great things initially. It had kind of gotten a little bit not been invested in in the way that it could have been. And so when we started here, the reputation was not very strong.

And it's really, really hard when you're creating something like this to not be a one and done. So you constantly have to be trying to bring something fresh in or something new so that the people will come again, right? So it'll be like, the science that I've been there before and I don't think anything's new or changed. I don't need to go there again. And we were heavily revenue driven. We still are very heavily revenue driven. But.

And I think that was the thing, right? So how do you constantly be changing things up or bringing new things in order to bring people back again? But yeah, so I think a lot of it went out into the community. I got to give a lot of credit to the local chamber of commerce because we were members of the Fort Walton Beach chamber and I went in there and they did lunch and learns and I showed up.

all the time. I went to all the chamber meetings. I members of my board introduce me to people. I had the chamber CEO was like, okay, who do you need to meet in the community? You know, I mean, takes, it takes a little while, right? Cause because first of all, they look at you and they can see the things that you can't see and they can say, well, I don't know if we want to be sign on for this. Cause I don't know if this is going to work out.

Sara (26:43)
I also saw the reputation before too.

Diane (26:46)
Exactly

right. It takes a little while in order to build that trust and to show, if you make this investment in this, I can turn around and do that. And this is what I'm going to do. If you come here and you give me a thousand dollars, I'm going to buy these little robots and these little robots are going to do this, this and this. And then I'm going to take it here and there. you know, kids are going to come in here and they're going to start using it. And then we're going to start building this foundation and base. then

if they can see that what they give you actually produces a program or produces salt and doesn't, know, then they begin to trust you. And then they'll go, okay, well, we, we, last year we gave them this and they did that. And we saw growth and we saw, you know, change and we saw happy kids and we saw, you know, then, okay, so let's, we are starting to build that trust and starting to.

relationships. And okay, maybe, maybe they might be able to pull this off. Not sure, but it's looking, I'm going to give them a little bit 10 % higher chance of, you know, of making it happen. But those things take time. think sometimes you just, depending on where you're starting from, you don't have that kind of time, right? In order to be able to build those relationships in order to be able to get your

you know, your business or your organization to a place where, you know, all of a sudden things just start to flow.

Sara (28:12)
So how long do you think it took?

Diane (28:14)
So I've always heard people talk about this five year mark, right? Like if you can take a small business and if you can make it to the first five years, you that's it. Yeah, you've kind of built that base, you've built those relationships, you've built that flow, there's trust in you and the community. So that puts our five year mark at 2020.

Sara (28:23)
Yeah, you're going keep going.

How'd that go?

Diane (28:35)
Yeah, wasn't that fun? Yeah.

Sara (28:37)
How did the pandemic impact a science center that is mostly in person with activities that you touch?

Diane (28:43)
Right? So I think by 2019, we had sort of reached this trajectory. We had reached this flow. Everything was going great. Year over year, were building capacity, bringing in more people. And then 2020. So it was a pivot. And the great thing about being small is that you can make decisions quickly. You don't have a lot of bureaucracy.

you were able to pivot. So that first year after March of 2020, we had about, we had a field trip book every single day after spring break, right? But we never came back from spring break.

Sara (29:18)
It was a permanent spring break for several months.

Diane (29:20)
Permanent

spring break, right? For the rest of that academic year at least. so we said, okay, what do we do? We started offering a lot of ⁓ online activities where we did YouTube channels and we still had our educators come in and talk about the animals or do a hands-on experiment and say, here's how you can do this at home.

we created kits where you could purchase a kit and we would have everything in there. You could drive by, pick up the kit and experience them. It was, I'll be honest with you, we had $8,000 in the bank when we started the pandemic. And that's not even, you know, one month of, you know, expenses for us. And we did apply for the PPP, the personal

personal protection program or whatever through the federal government. And we did not lose a single staff member in the pandemic. And we reached out to the community and we would have weekly board phone calls and our treasurer would talk about the burn rate. Okay, well, at the current burn rate, we can stay open until here.

Sara (30:13)
amazing.

Diane (30:27)
We can stay open until this time. And we just had donations and like Facebook donations, $5 here, $20 here. People would say, Hey, I want this place to be here when we come out of this. You know, here's my $25. And we went to the city because they held our mortgage and they were so gracious, so gracious. They said, okay, well, we're going to pause it and give you a pause without penalties.

until we sort of see how the whole thing shakes out. And I honestly, it's a couple of things happen. So we had this great big huge outdoor space. And so we said, well, people feel more comfortable going outside. So I letters to like 15 of the biggest home builders in the area. And I said, hey, people like to be outside. We have this great space. We want to do create these things.

outside so people will come and go outside and play. And then one of them bit and said, okay, great. We'll work with Navar Lumber at the time and we will, and the first one was, Whitworth Holmes.

And they said, okay, we'll partner with them and we'll get all the materials delivered to you. So this is about $2,000 worth of ⁓ lumber and supply. Yeah. And so that came in and then we reached out for volunteers and there was a lot of students at the EOD school that were here, but their classes weren't made because of the pandemic.

Sara (31:38)
Lumber was expensive at the time too.

Diane (31:53)
hanging out here and we were outside. So they came in and did community service with us and they did the building and we can all these great exhibits outside and ⁓

Sara (32:03)
So was that space totally empty?

Diane (32:05)
It was, it was, We have almost three acres of property here. So that space was empty. So you're talking about the boating exhibit, the tree. I know dig, none of that existed until.

Sara (32:07)
Gosh.

This

area is huge, by the way, and it's awesome. Like, it's a lot of fun to be in, even as an adult.

Diane (32:23)
Right. And so I kind of think that that sort of like the pandemic sent us in a different direction. Right. So we developed all of these outdoor exhibits. Liza Jackson gave us the steam bus when they were building their new school and they didn't need it anymore. They just straight up said, hey, you can come over here. We'll jump off the battery. You guys can drive it over there and you can have it. So I think that there was a couple of big donors that came through for us and helped us get some of this stuff put together.

But I keep thinking about how different we would have been. We wouldn't have been what we are. The pandemic sent us in a different direction, but it turned out to be a really good direction. And so when other people talk about coming out of the pandemic, and I'm thinking, you know what? For us, it was scary, scary, scary. But it turned out to be so great. We actually sort of went through the whole thing that we did and the new exhibits and all of this other stuff.

And we won an award at the Association of Science and Technology Centers conference. We run a resiliency award for taking that time and creating the space that we did and the partnerships that we built of getting things donated and then using military volunteers to help us. And they really just were like, wow, that was, you

How did you do that? And I'm like, well, you sometimes it's good to be small. It's good to be really close to your community. It's really good to have those relationships. You know, I don't know if like a bigger museum in a bigger city would have been able to do that because they might not have that same like on the ground kind of relationship with their community that somebody the size of us in this type of community has.

Sara (33:58)
And I think over the course of time, and since I've been in this area, you can see how integral the Science Center is in the community now. it is part, it touches every aspect of the community, whether it's the school, the kids, summer break, the adults programs now that are really fun, the cocktail event that you guys have. I think there's a lot of things that you see how it touches. And so when people see

Diane (34:14)
for

Sara (34:25)
like how it touches them, even if it's just like one degree of separation, they're willing to kind of, okay, well, I see how this impacts and I want help.

Diane (34:34)
Right, so that they have some skin in the game with us. right. And I think that, so I don't know how we came out of the pandemic. I honestly, I don't. To me, was like, it's a total blur. But you know, year over year, once we got through the pandemic and we got through like ⁓ a full year of no field trips and that for museums is like your mortgage payment, right? Your field.

So we had to go the whole next academic year without field trips. And then the field trips finally started to come back. And then we had year over year growth ever since then, which has been wonderful. I mean, it's been a lot of fun. mean, the building is still old and there's still a lot to do. You know, there's still challenges. You know, we're right now trying to figure out how to get a new roof. So yeah, fun stuff.

And it's interesting because nobody's going to pay for the roof, right? mean, nobody wants to. They pay for a new exhibit or they'll pay for a program because it's something fun to put your name on. And it's something that actually touches the mission of what we're trying to do. A roof and a parking lot, not so much.

Sara (35:36)
Even though it's integral to the aspect of it. It's not the flashy thing that is needed. So the Science Center has been in this location for 10 years now, right? Almost 11. What would you say has been the most important tool that you've had and used during this time period of growth, evolution, bringing it back? What would be that tool?

Diane (35:47)
Almost 11.

⁓ I think it's the community. I think it's, the relationship and listening to your community and, owning your mistakes when you make them. And we've made a lot of mistakes. mean, we've tried things that didn't work. ⁓ you know, I, I don't even start on Google reviews, but I mean, if you talk about, you know,

That's probably one of the hardest things is knowing that we are what we are is not what we want to be. We have big dreams. We have big goals, right? But these take baby steps. you constantly have to be, yeah, I know that's broken, but I don't have the $5,000 to fix it right now. I appreciate it. That was all of your

people that came in and didn't read the instructions and parents that play on their phones and aren't paying attention to their kids, which is what broke it in the first place. now I'm getting dinged on it for a Google review. That's kind of how that plays out sometimes that I'm doing the best I can. I hope you appreciate the honesty and what I'm trying to say to you.

But I think it's the relationships that you build with the community because without your community, there's no point in doing it. I mean, our mission is to inspire and engage a scientifically, you know, literate community. That's that's the word right there. Community. can't provide what my community needs. You know, and if I'm not and if I'm not trying to stay in touch with what my community needs.

then there's no point in doing this.

Sara (37:33)
Well,

got to listen to what, if you don't provide what they need, then why do you exist? You're not just there. You're actually there for a purpose and you are continuing to provide that purpose.

Diane (37:44)
And it requires a lot of, I think, being vulnerable too, because you have to say, I don't know everything. Tell me what it is that I should be doing. Tell me what is that you think is gonna fill a gap that we're addressing or that we can fill.

Sara (38:01)
Do you have an example of that that you'd be open to sharing?

Diane (38:03)
Okay, so here's one. And I think this is something that still plays out. So one of the things that we see a lot in STEM is the under-representation of girls. females are across the board in almost every aspect of STEM. And one of our sponsors and our donors came and said, hey, let's focus on that, right? So we created a program called Women in Science.

And we do it every year and we get local women that have STEM related careers. They give like a Ted talk and we gear it towards upper elementary, middle school age girls so that they can see these role models in this community. We always want boys to show up to because we want number one, it's just a way to look at STEM career fields in our area because we're talking, that's what we're talking about. It's also an opportunity for the girls to see role models, but the boys to understand that, yeah, there are female engineers. Yeah.

No. So sometimes we get pushed back on like, well, why do you just focus on the girls and why do you, you know, do something for boys? And I push it say this out loud, but I want to say, history, you know, have you not seen, there's this great picture of like the great physicist, at a, at a, European conference and it is all men.

and Marie Curie. And there's probably 50 people in the picture. there's that. that was like 100 years ago. So yeah, I feel very passionately about this. And I know that you guys, if you feel slighted, I'm sorry, that's not what I'm trying to do. What I'm trying to do with this program is to get more diversity, more different ideas, more different frames of reference into the scientific field.

so as you can imagine, it's been great. We've, we've loved it. It's built a year. ⁓ it's, it's been absolutely wonderful and amazing to watch the growth of that program. And then this year, so that funder that came to us originally to start that program can't fund it anymore.

Sara (39:58)
⁓ no.

Diane (39:59)
And one of our other big funders, non-governmental funders, but does a lot of work with the government, pulled out too.

Sara (40:08)
How are you guys, how are you gonna do this?

Diane (40:09)
because it has the word women in the title of it.

Sara (40:11)
⁓ no.

Diane (40:12)
Well, got props to the United Way. When we were talking about that, the United Way stepped up to fill in that first funder, the gap from the first funder. somebody, our normal groups that have normally helped us put this program on have all still stepped up and have come in to continue to support it. the questions.

So do we change the title of it? So it makes it more appealing locals in science or something like that. But that's not the point, right? Because the point is women in science, right? Because there's a gap, there's a need that we feel very strongly about because we're all women here. And as a person that grew up trying to be a scientist, as a female,

You know, I experienced some of that along my journey as well.

So, you know, I'm like, no, no, we're going to stick with the title. This is even more important right now than it's ever been. So I think that that's, know, and you kind of have to read the room and just sort of figure out, pick your battles. And I think the thing that when I was a research chemist at the Food and Drug Administration, they would send

chemist over to overseas to these different plants where they were making some of the bulk drugs before they were, you know, put together. And so they would do these inspections. Okay. And so one of my colleagues got to go to China, and he got to go do these inspections. And at the time, they wouldn't, they wouldn't send a woman to China. Yeah, because they were like, well,

They're not going to be respected. They're not going to be seen as the same currency as a guy. And this is in the 90s, right? And in my head, I'm going, if we never send a woman to China to do these inspections, they will never expect or respect a woman in that position because we're caving to them, right? Because we're saying, OK, well, we're going to do this because this is what you want.

How does that ever change? It never changes. And so that's the kind of stuff that came out of my background of being a scientist and having certain fields be, for lack of a better term, middle-aged white males and being one or two of the

Sara (42:09)
Yeah.

Diane (42:27)
the women in the room. This can be very intimidating.

Sara (42:30)
So what would you say is as we move forward with these STEM projects and focusing on STEM in middle school, like what helps inspire young girls, young boys, like what helps them become inspired to stay in science so that we can have a wide range of thinkers and doers and all of that, like why is this all important?

Diane (42:53)
Well, I think the critical thinking part of it, right? Because I think this idea of I'm not a proponent of standardized test. ⁓ Yeah, think it's like you garbage in, garbage out, right? So these are memorizations, right? I think we've gotten away from

Sara (43:03)
I suck at them.

Diane (43:13)
creating things and making things and building things. I think that kids should take power tools. I love the idea of giving a kid something to take it apart. Use a power tool, use a drill, use a screwdriver, right? Because there's some hand-eye connection, there's some critical thinking. Once you start doing that, you're like, ⁓ okay, well, what would be the best way to do this?

⁓ Okay, well, let me get out my measuring tape and let me figure this out. Now, if I cut that at an angle and then I try and put this together and, you know, that really is an open ended question. And I think the more of those types of open ended questions that don't necessarily have a single right answer. Yeah. I think that's the thing that we need to be focusing on. There's a lot of different ways to do things. Sometimes there's several right ways.

to get several different pathways to get to the same result. think we need people that can see all those, maybe not see all of them, but can see a pathway that maybe is a different pathway that somebody else did, because that opens it up for more learning, as opposed to, everybody get in this lane.

Sara (44:23)
We've always done it this one way. We're to keep doing it instead of somebody being like, well, actually, let's think about this.

Diane (44:29)
Right, because the world is changing and it's changing so fast. And you've got to sometimes get out of your lane and you've got to sometimes be looking at it in a new, indifferent way and experimenting for lack of a better term. We build a lot of stuff here at the Science Center. And I love doing it. we will, a lot of times we don't even start with a blueprint, we just start with an idea and we'll just start.

go into lows and just start cutting things and then half way through we're like, my God, that was so stupid. Why did we do it that way? How can we undo this and redo this? But it's so much fun. think the value of creating something and making something tangible, I think we've lost that in a lot of ways.

Sara (45:15)
We're behind screens a lot.

Diane (45:16)
Exactly, exactly.

Sara (45:18)
You can make things with screens, but there's something about using your hands to build things that make a huge difference.

Diane (45:23)
Right, so we're doing this new program this year that we've launched. It's a refashion show. We're doing like you can build an outfit out of trash. You can go to a thrift store and tear stuff apart, buy a set of sheets and create something or build something. Because I think that we need to do more of that, right? More of that, I'm gonna make something and create something. There's just such a personal fulfillment that you get out of doing something like that.

Sara (45:29)
⁓ yeah.

Diane (45:50)
And we need to have more avenues for kids and adults, adults too, right? To be able to create those kinds of things. So this is our first year of joining us. So we were just having a little planning session this morning. It's actually in a month. Yeah. So something new, something different. Hopefully it'll catch on. Who knows? It might not, right? Yeah.

Sara (46:11)
And it, well, I mean, I've seen the different programs that the Science Center has. And let me tell you, as an adult, I like going to the Science Center. It's fun. Like you get to be a kid again. I remember when we were there for a Women United event or something like that, I was playing with one of the toys and they're like, should you be playing with that? I was like, it's out here. Like, I'm sorry. Like, are you not supposed to be playing with these? The kids play with them. And I think for adults to have these types of outlets.

and show that doing those types of things in front of kids is also good too.

Diane (46:40)
Well, I think you've touched on something that I think is really, important for relationship building between a child and an adult. So something like a place like this or a museum or something, takes you out of your normal home life or your normal, you know, and when you walk into a place like this and you can say, OK, well, the adult can be a kid and the kid can be a kid.

And it gives them just a whole new frame of reference for how they interact with each other. Because it's kind of not necessarily a guided, but you're kind of given a prompt, right? So you've got this prompt. Here's this exhibit. And you've got a prompt. And how you engage with that is very personal. mean, two sets of people that walk up might engage with it in the same way.

So I think museums are great places if we're trying to foster a relationship between an adult and a child. We work really hard to try and give out free passes to organizations that work with Big Brothers, Big Sisters and Guardian AdLight and foster organizations and stuff like that. It's because it's a very low barrier. The expectations are low. You're going to have a good time together.

a really easy sort of a way. And I think that's one of the ways that we've tried to more ends in the community, right? To build a broader base and to have, create more friends is, you know, when we can support other people in their mission in whatever ways that we can find that are helpful.

Sara (48:07)
Because science is needed in all different. Science is a solution and science can be activity. It can be all the things that you might need that you didn't even know you needed.

Diane (48:16)
And it can be relationship building, because science is collaborative across all disciplines and all types of mediums and stuff like that. Science is a very collaborative process. And in the broader sense of the world, you have scientists from all over the world that collaborate on projects and bring people together.

Sara (48:20)
Mm-hmm.

So because this is a leadership podcast, I'm going to focus on one question that's specifically about leadership. But what would you say has been the hardest leadership challenge that you've had as you've grown with the Science Center?

Diane (48:48)
I am a terrible manager.

Sara (48:50)
Why do you say that?

Diane (48:51)
Because I don't like to get onto people about anything. So, you know, as my husband would call me an ostrich, I just put my head in the sand and hope that that issue is just gonna go away. So I'm really bad at addressing things like that. I just hope that somehow or another it's gonna work itself out.

Because I think culture is such a huge part of an organization. think especially if you, the smaller you are, the more important your culture is. Because the more you have to rely on each other and the more everybody does multiple tasks, nobody gets to just have one job title and just stick with a job title like that. You all have to have each other's back. And so you can get one person

that maybe doesn't fit in your culture. boy, it doesn't take long at all to drag a whole organization down. And that's the part that I'm bad at because I'm bad at addressing that one negative thing. And maybe it'll just get better on its own. Maybe it'll end. It doesn't. It doesn't. It actually gets worse because you've procrastinated and put off doing it.

So I think you have to be very, very protective of the culture that you create because it has a huge impact on your colleagues' ability to be able to come to work with enthusiasm. And that's important.

Sara (50:20)
Well, it sounds like you have a really good team right now. So you've built it over the course of time and learned all of these things. Yeah.

Diane (50:23)
I have a great day.

Yeah,

but also it can still be a very fluid team, right? Because, you know, it was such a military heavy population here. And a lot of times we'll have people that are part of the team that are military spouses or, and, you know, so they leave and then you've got to replace them. And that's where that little, that little tricky thing, right? Because you have to find that right person. Exactly. And it may not always be available at the time that you need it to be available.

Sara (50:50)
Right, puzzle piece.

Diane (50:56)
So...

Sara (50:57)
It's so hard finding the right people for the right position with the right team to see how it's going to impact and hopefully help the organization succeed.

Diane (51:07)
Yeah, and then you'll find somebody and they'll interview great, right? And they'll have the resume and the interview will be great. And then they get in and maybe they just don't fit in right, or they just have these very strong opinions and ideas. wow. Yeah, I think that's the hardest part. To me, that's the hardest part. Protecting the culture.

Sara (51:26)
Yeah.

that though. I love how passionate you are about protecting the culture because it shows that you're like you're aware, you know the impacts that it has and so you understand like how it can impact the future of the organization and the people and their daily lives.

So, ⁓ sidestepping just a little bit. I would love to do a rapid fire Q &A with you. okay. you have not seen these questions. No, I haven't. Because I did not include them in my email to you.

The main thing is we try to do it as quick as possible and see how goes. Okay, okay, you ready? Okay, your go-to coffee or tea order.

Diane (51:59)
I'm a little scared, but okay.

a plain latte. I feel like you can really tell how good a coffee shop is, is how well they can make a plain latte.

Sara (52:09)
completely agree. If you could have dinner with any scientist, past or present, who would it be?

Diane (52:14)
Marie Curie.

Sara (52:14)
What would you want to ask her?

Diane (52:15)
Oh, wow, she was so brave. And she and her sister took turns. One of them worked while the other one went to school, and then the other one went to school, and the other one worked. So I just think that, how did you do that? Did you be that person that stood up to all of that and be the only woman in the room? The only one.

Sara (52:30)
Yeah.

That is really cool. What is your favorite exhibit or feature at the Science Center right now?

Diane (52:44)
But it's always the animals. No. Always the animals. And I love the snakes. I love the snakes because I never would have thought that I would be that person that would play with snakes.

Sara (52:53)
Which one is your favorite?

Diane (52:54)
Um, well, my favorite one passed away. Um, yeah, a couple of years ago. And so I really do love the ball pythons. Um, I love the ball pythons, but my favorite one is no longer with us.

Sara (53:05)
okay which one's lucy because that's my favorite okay

Diane (53:09)
she's the she's the boa.

She's she's she's my second favorite.

Sara (53:13)
Yeah, it shocks me. I don't think I realize how it freaks people out to hold snakes or see snakes that much. And I'm just like, my gosh, I want to hold the snake. Anyways, Lucy's the greatest. I've held her a few times now. What is one piece of advice you'd give to your younger self when you started this journey?

Diane (53:29)
Wow, what would I get?

God, I don't even know. Okay, you know what? Just be brave. Just be brave. You know, I probably didn't have the courage to do some of the things that I should have done when I was younger. And maybe that's what led me to be able to take on some things as an older, as an adult, because I feel like maybe I missed some opportunities. And ⁓ so, yeah, just go for it.

Sara (53:52)
I love that. And then last question, what is one STEM innovation that you're most excited to see in the future?

Diane (53:58)
It's not AI.

Sara (53:58)
We're already in the midst of that.

Diane (54:00)
we're

good. Right, right. It's not that. What is the one STEM thing? I love how easy it is now for the creativity of kids in robotics. is. Yeah, I think that is really cool. We have so many cool little robotic devices that the kids can engage with.

Sara (54:10)
really cool.

Diane (54:19)
And it's that wow factor too. I really love that, it's sort of like that almost instant gratification they can get from that and how amazed they are at that. So, but yeah, it's not AI.

Sara (54:31)
So as we're talking about the Science Center and Emerald Coast Science Center in particular, obviously, where can people find more about you and or the Science Center, especially if they come to Fort Walton Beach and want to visit?

Diane (54:42)
So our website is ecscience.org and all of the information can be found on our website. We have a calendar on there that talks about our events. You can learn about exhibits and how to get admissions and programs and stuff like that that we do. And follow us on social media. I think that's one of the most fun things is that, you know,

We develop and make our own social media. So we're always like trying to come up with cute ideas, follow the trends and stuff like that. And we really, really enjoy that as well. So I'd say definitely check out our social media.

Sara (55:16)
Nice, nice. Well, I just want to say thank you so much for joining. It was fun talking to you. This is the most scientific conversation I think I've ever had for the podcast. It was so interesting. I learned a lot. I always love coming to the Science Center and I always love chatting with you. We volunteer together for a lot of different things. It's always a fun conversation. So overall, appreciate your time and I'm excited for everyone to listen to it.

Diane (55:38)
thank you. appreciate it too, Sarah.