59. Redefining Leadership with Brooke Brzozowske

In this episode of Lead Into It, I’m joined by Brooke Brzozowske, a former federal government communications professional who spent nearly two decades advising leaders at the highest levels of the military and is now a full-time executive and leadership coach.

Brooke was one of my very first podcast guests five years ago, and she’s someone who also inspired me go on the journey to become a coach. Since then, her journey has been all about alignment, courage, and redefining what leadership looks like from the inside out.

Together, we explore what it means to lead with intention, realign your work with your values, and have the courage to reinvent yourself. Brooke shares lessons from her time at the Pentagon, moments of growth from her coaching practice, and how she’s learned to lead from a place of authenticity and trust.

If you’ve ever wondered how to show up more authentically as a leader or what it looks like to take charge of your own story, this episode is for you.

You can find out more about Brooke and her coaching practice here. 

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my Sunday newsletter, or reach out at sara@leadintoitco.

Excited to be with you!

Transcript

Sara Greco (00:00)
You're listening to episode 59 of the Lead Into It podcast.

Sara Greco (00:06)
Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Lead Into It. I'm your host, Sara Greco. And today I've got a conversation I'm so excited to share with you. Five years ago, when I first started this podcast, today's guest was one of the very first people to sit in this virtual chair. And honestly, she's one of the people who inspired me to also become a coach. Now she's back and she has a story of growth that I know is going to let you up. Brooke Brasovsky isn't just another executive coach. She's a former federal government communications pro.

who spent nearly two decades advising leaders at some of the highest levels of the military. Since we last talked, she's really taken charge of her life. She decided to get in alignment with her values and now she's coaching full time. In this episode, we talk about leadership that goes way beyond titles and performance. We dig into what it really means to lead with intention, to create space for authentic growth, and to trust yourself enough to completely reimagine your path.

Brooke shares insights from her time at the Pentagon, some powerful coaching moments, and stories from high pressure situations that shaped how she leads and how she helps others to do the same. So grab your favorite drink and maybe a pen and paper if you're a note taker and settle in for a conversation that might just change the way you think about leadership. Let's dive in.

Sara Greco (01:18)
Welcome Brooke back to the Lead Into A Podcast. It's so good to have you back on.

Brooke Brzozowske (01:22)
Thanks, Sara. I'm excited to be here.

Sara Greco (01:25)
It has been five years? I think it's almost been six, because technically I think we recorded in the fall before 2020. So, wow.

Brooke Brzozowske (01:29)
think that's.

So

yeah, I know I was probably blonde back then too.

Sara Greco (01:39)
Maybe I didn't do video back then so we have no proof of any of it so yeah, you were one of my first guests and you kind of inspired me and started thinking about becoming a coach and all the things So and then of course the past six years have felt like 20 Also just with the amount that's happened in the world and probably in your life personally my life personally

Brooke Brzozowske (01:42)
Oh, okay. So, yeah, thank you.

Sara Greco (02:04)
So just excited to have you back on, talk about your journey a little bit and kind of where you've come and your journey until today. It's a big, big ask.

Brooke Brzozowske (02:12)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it has. Actually, it's been really great to even get ready for this conversation with you because while it's been five years, the last five months have have also been incredible for me. So this pushed me into a state of really reflecting about me. So thank you. What a great coach move.

Sara Greco (02:31)
⁓ hey, I try. I learn from the best.

So, I mean, obviously a lot's changed in leadership. We had to go to remote work. There's so much that's happened in the government, in the world, and culturally. So what would you say has probably been the biggest leadership shift since fall of 2019?

Brooke Brzozowske (02:55)
Ooh, I mean, if we're talking big picture right now, I think the pandemic really changed leaders as much as it changed those they lead. I'll be honest, what I remember, I mean, again, and it seems like forever ago, was that everyone was sort of immediately forced to trust their people, right? We had no choice.

Sara Greco (03:09)
Yeah.

Brooke Brzozowske (03:15)
And we, the ultimate, you know, compass North star was safety and taking care of people. And all of that was very clear. And we, we saw leaders rally around that. They had this common cause. And now I'll be honest, sometimes what I'm reading and what I'm seeing is we've sort of walked that back a little bit. And I, I worry that sometimes we're operating from a lot more of a scarcity mindset.

and worrying that leaders will lose control in some ways. So when I find myself in a room with executives trying to figure out like the next phase and the evolution of leadership post pandemic, I often really encourage them to go back to some of those generous assessments of folks and to assume positive intent first. I've sat in rooms where leaders are mad that people had other jobs. And I remember sitting here going, aren't you on a board?

Like, don't you have other commitments? Some of them are paid, some of them are unpaid, but especially like in this world right now, I'm sitting here going, I think I read something like it was close to like 30 % in 2023 had like a side job and they were able to do it and supplement income as prices got higher and higher. When we all came back to the office, it seemed like we were operating from a place of no, that's my time. And it's true.

Sara Greco (04:05)
So, do you to say?

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Brooke Brzozowske (04:33)
right? I just I wonder if there's room and like a little bit more generosity to give people at this what would that look like for leaders? So yeah, it I don't know. do.

Sara Greco (04:45)
Big,

the culture shift, huge. Like before we were used to being in the office, then we got used to being at home. So it's almost like our work life, what they would call balance became a synergy, it became a harmony. And now that the expectation of people going back into the office is there, it's like, well, you can't have that synergy anymore because you're in the office. So this is what your primary focus should be.

Brooke Brzozowske (04:52)
Yeah.

Yeah, and people all show up differently, right? I know that there are some people who definitely love it, hate it, right? And I see that. And I believe that leadership is about meeting people where they are, right? It's not about standing on top of that mountain and saying, get up here, you know? That for me, that's a hardship to see sometimes. And I find that if we're operating from scarcity, if we're worried about what we're losing as a leader,

Sara Greco (05:10)
Thank

Brooke Brzozowske (05:30)
We're finding that so it's like that exercise that I don't know if you're right because for the John Maxwell exercise that they tell you to like look around the room for 10 seconds and notice everything you can that's blue Right, and then you write down when you're done. You say you say write down everything you notice that was red and The point of the exercise is you find what you're looking for So if you are looking for people to abuse it and use it and not trust them Then that's what you're gonna find if you're looking for people to prove you, right?

Sara Greco (05:39)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Brooke Brzozowske (05:59)
Right, that's what you're saying. so yeah, I guess if I had a wish for like the next couple of years, I hope that we lean in a little bit closer to people and we get a little bit more curious in order to connect and assume that generous intent. Yeah.

Sara Greco (05:59)
You're gonna find it.

Yeah, I

hope so too, because I agree with you. As a leader, meeting people where they are does so much. It creates such a great impact. People feel seen, heard, and they're willing to do more. And when you look for what they're doing wrong, it's like, well, why are you looking for that in the first place? Yeah.

Brooke Brzozowske (06:28)
Right, right.

What is that? What are we really saying? Yeah, it's like at the end of an interview where somebody they say, do you have any questions for us? And I can always tell where they're coming from by the questions they ask, then when they're like, uh, yeah, tell me about your workforce culture. What's that like? And I'm like, oh, I know where they're coming from. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Why is this job open?

Sara Greco (06:31)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yep. Why are you leaving the job?

Well, Wissak's a pretty big picture. Like that's ⁓ the world from the past six years. Yeah. It was a big question. And I'd love to hear about like, what's probably been the biggest shift for you over the past six years? You've done so much different types of work and then coaching and speaking. What would you say has been the biggest transformation you've seen in yourself?

Brooke Brzozowske (06:57)
Yeah, yeah, get me started on the big question first.

There's been a lot of change. There's been a lot of change. So five years ago, I was running on someone else's calendar, right? And I was putting together plans for everyone else, but not my own life, right? So the visible change, probably to everyone else, is I no longer work for the federal government. And that was almost two decades of my life. The change that's not as visible is really how I got here.

Sara Greco (07:17)
big question. Yeah.

Brooke Brzozowske (07:38)
That took a couple of assignments, new jobs, and a good therapist, and a great group of friends to help me see that, I'm gonna say this, survival is not the same as service.

Sara Greco (07:49)
oooo

Brooke Brzozowske (07:51)
And for a long time, I really thought that if something was hard and if it hurt a little, that it must be worthwhile. mean, man, from day one, putting on that uniform, even active duty. And it took someone to tell me that, you know, I can still serve in a different foxhole, right? I can still pour myself into

building great leaders, helping them find their path, right? Who they wanna become. All of that can be done from a different foxhole so to speak. And so I really stopped trying to like prove my struggle and started designing my work around the life I actually wanna live. And so, yeah, I mean, I tell my friends this all the time.

I'll work until the day I die as long as I get to control my own calendar and I get to do the things that I love with the people I want to connect with and all of that, that ignites me and it excites me. yeah, that biggest shift for me was really kind of reframing what it meant to serve.

Sara Greco (08:51)
How does it feel to run your own calendar?

Brooke Brzozowske (08:54)
This is what I meant when I said it was good for me to have this. I'll be honest, sometimes it's scary as hell. Like I'm still learning to trust myself in the process, to trust the feeling that this is what it's supposed to be like.

Like truly living in alignment, it's like getting out of a bad relationship and the first one you get into that's healthy, you're like, can I Right? And you kind of self-sabotage someday. Right? But yeah, it is definitely, it is incredible. I get to protect time and again, you know, I'm learning to create space for me too. But it is.

so empowering to have that time back to myself. And I find when I do, I give so much more and so freely to others.

Couldn't ask for anything more right now.

Sara Greco (09:40)
I mean, the smile on your face says it all. We're just like, this is terrifying, but probably the biggest thing and greatest thing I've ever done.

Brooke Brzozowske (09:42)
yeah ⁓

I know, it probably feels like the way I do when I ride a roller coaster. I'm like, this is so crazy. And then I'm just the whole way down. Right?

Sara Greco (09:54)
Afterwards, let's do it again!

You, I mean, just looking at your LinkedIn and bio and all of that, you've been on quite a journey, like just from what you can see on the outside. I'd love to dive a little bit deeper into some of your federal government work, because I feel like it probably shaped some of what you do today. And also, I personally want to learn from it because I'm a nerd and I saw so much of it from the outside and I'm like, Brooke had to do this and see this. it's like,

Brooke Brzozowske (09:56)
Yeah.

huh.

Thanks.

Ugh.

Sara Greco (10:23)
you were sought after to give advice and counsel to so many high-level leaders in the E-Ring of the Pentagon.

Brooke Brzozowske (10:28)
It's not wild.

It's still wild to think about that because posted about this recently. I was always like a weird kid growing up, right? Like I, I lettered in Latin, right. And I'm cool. I was a weird kid. I love Lord of the Rings. I go to a Renaissance festival till today, right? and weird isn't always rewarded in areas of conformity and right, pragmatism and traditional.

And I remember early on thinking that I had to shave that down and I really had to dim that in order to fit in. It wasn't until, again, great coaches, good lessons learned that you realize somewhere along the way that it's like putting one foot on the gas and one foot on the brake. I'm trying to fit in and but I'm also trying to hold back.

And the moment I stopped doing that, there's probably a series of experiments along the way and good coaches, but it was like my differences became my distinction in a room. So the things that everybody else saw were great, but it was like leaders knew they could look at me and go, okay, Brooke, what's the thing we're not seeing? Like, what are we not seeing? Because we need somebody to stretch that and call it out.

Sara Greco (11:35)
really want it.

Brooke Brzozowske (11:41)
So it didn't mean that what I had was better. It just meant that it was, it kind of completed the picture, I guess, in some ways. But yeah, it is, it's great.

Sara Greco (11:49)
You have a whole range of a picture.

Like you can do two dimensional, you made a 3D.

Brooke Brzozowske (11:54)
Yeah, I get, yeah, that's a great way to put that. Yeah, so I would often, I would challenge leaders beyond, now, it wasn't just what do they need, what do I need to give them to look impressive? was what can, what do they need to feel impressive was oftentimes some of it. So, yeah, it was, it's been a journey looking at that.

Sara Greco (12:14)
How was it in the Pentagon? Because I imagine, and also seeing it from my personal experience, that a lot of people create the environment around them and interact based on wanting to seem impressive. So how was that shift in trying to provide that kind of space and counsel for others instead?

Brooke Brzozowske (12:36)
I, here's, here's what I would do. I would typically before I'd walk into a room, I would write something down on the top of my notebook and I would be like, be open to being surprised with one of my mantras, right? Like be open to being surprised. So I really wanted to channel curiosity and I wanted to channel courage, right? I, I got to a point where I was like, I don't want to go to a meeting if I'm not going to say anything.

And I'm at a point where I'm like, no, I'm in the room because I want to bring value, not just to take value away. I wanted to give as much as I was taking. So I would often find that sort of leading with intention into every space that I went into with courage and curiosity really helped. So I joke that curiosity is the coffin for ego. ⁓

Sara Greco (13:20)
you

Brooke Brzozowske (13:22)
So when you walk into room full of four stars and senior executives, you cannot assume that you already know. My job was not like to impress them, it was to hold them near steady so they could see themselves clearly, right? So sometimes it simply meant, sir, what are you trying to say here? Or if this one sentence, know, fill in the blank, carried the weight of your decision, would you stand behind it?

Sara Greco (13:36)
Mm-hmm.

Brooke Brzozowske (13:43)
Right? And then hold. Now I'm not trying to fill the space, but let them take that moment and kind of back into space. So I didn't need to tell leaders how to fly the jet, right? I didn't need to tell them how to run military ops. Most of the time, the best thing we can do in advisor roles is simply hold space for them.

Sara Greco (14:04)
How did they

with that?

Brooke Brzozowske (14:05)
The ones who chose to have me in the room love it, right? But the watching the staff around the room When they would watch me they were like, what is she doing? my god. ⁓ my god She's gonna be in so much trouble I remember it was the first couple times but like I think it was a mutual friend of ours on the press desk She said I can't believe you talked to them like that. And I'm like like what like humans? I remember one senior leader told me one time. He said the loneliest day of my life

Sara Greco (14:07)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Brooke Brzozowske (14:31)
was the day I put on one star.

because people stopped talking to me like I was human. Right? The last person to know anything is typically the boss. And these people are used to being in charge and used to being in the know. And sometimes just arriving with them and sitting next to them and holding some space for them to just be themselves is so freeing and could help provide a lot of clarity for them.

Sara Greco (14:36)
Mm-hmm.

Just, my gosh, silence. I can't even imagine just providing silence in general, because so many people are talking at you when you're a leader. Just talking at you. So to have a space to breathe and think, magic must happen.

Brooke Brzozowske (15:03)
Yes.

Yeah.

Right? Your day is driven by five by eight note cards and, you know, packed calendars. Having a good question asked of you. Dynamite. I hope. I hope it's dynamite. Yeah.

Sara Greco (15:21)
Yeah.

How did you notice the results of those questions and that thought process?

Brooke Brzozowske (15:26)
Most of the time, they were very helpful, especially for the staff around the room. Right? It would be, we'd go through all of these motions, we would prep, have binders of information given to them. Like you said, everybody's talking at delivering information at the leader. Sometimes it was simply starting with, sir, ma'am, what would a win look like for you at the end of this? Right? And you know this as a coach, at the total.

Right, that's creating an agreement from the beginning, right? Creating intention. And oftentimes we skip over the intentionality of leadership. We just move right into and we want it to be action oriented because we've got more things to do. But simply setting an intention can reframe the whole discussion, know, so at the end of this discussion, how do you want people to?

feel when you're done with this engagement? And then they would give me some thinking. Well, I want them to, you know, really know this, this and this. I'm like, well, that's a thinking, that's a thought. What do you want them to feel? And you can tell they were like scrambling to find words to like, I want them to feel confident, or I want them to feel trusted. Okay, well, then we're gonna shift some things to really help build that the same way you would build that with member of your staff, right?

Sara Greco (16:15)
Don't talk about feeling.

Brooke Brzozowske (16:40)
So most of the time it was very helpful. You could tell other times it would shift the meeting so fast that people would be like, wait, we are not prepared for this. No, no, no, these do not match the right? Like, oh, no. So, but 90 % of the time it was very helpful and escape.

Sara Greco (16:57)
I can just imagine people being like, I don't know if I should press the clicker now.

Brooke Brzozowske (17:03)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so good.

But that reflection space and that intentionality, man, that's gold to leaders.

Sara Greco (17:11)
Yeah, I love that. What would you say were some common threads you saw among the leaders and how they handled pressure?

Brooke Brzozowske (17:18)
Man, that's tough. Because each of them handle it a little differently.

Sara Greco (17:21)
Mm-hmm.

Brooke Brzozowske (17:22)
You're a Brene Brown fan, right? She talks about like the first draft, right? The story we tell ourselves.

Sara Greco (17:24)
of course.

Brooke Brzozowske (17:29)
I find in moments of like extreme pressure, what I really want to lean into is the story they're telling themselves. Right, that first story there's often something we're protecting.

If I can get us to name that, it sort of loses, it takes the air out of it, like that room. it loosens that control that it has over that leader, right? So, mean, this is a question I've asked before is what's the thing we're protecting and we're not ready to say yet, right? And if you can trust me enough, right? Cause that kind of question requires some trust upfront.

some capital there. If you can say it, then we're gonna walk back from that in a way that's still real, like grounded in your truth, but we're gonna do it in a way that's still authentic to you, right? Like we're gonna sort of ready this for prime time. But I need to know what we're not saying here and what you're trying to protect. So,

Sara Greco (18:11)
Mm-hmm.

good.

do you think that you got that from coaching or from your public affairs background? Because it sounds like a combo.

Brooke Brzozowske (18:29)
You're right. We talked about this last podcast. think communications, I know communications and coaching are such a great marriage, right? Because there three things we notice in coaching. It's body, language, and emotion. We're trained to observe in those three domains. And as a communications person, the language is so important. And language isn't just what's said, it's often what's unsaid too.

Sara Greco (18:36)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Brooke Brzozowske (18:52)
And the unsaid that, again, a little bit of that ego is where we're protecting, something we're protecting. And if I can get us to name that out loud, great. Right. And yeah, that is definitely, that's curiosity in communications that helps coaching. Interesting. Yeah. I hadn't thought about that before, but yeah, it's probably a mix of both.

Sara Greco (19:07)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I just remember like when we're briefing people, they're like, well, we can't talk about this with public affairs. I'm like, actually, this is, you need to talk about it with me to know, I need to know what we actually want to say and what we're not saying. Not like we're hiding the truth, but like, what's the message, but also what's the backstory? I need to understand so that we can portray the correct message. So it's interesting how that's being portrayed with this as a leader.

Brooke Brzozowske (19:40)
Yes.

Yeah. I have recently fallen in love in the last couple of years with the Enneagram. I don't know if you're familiar with that, right? Yeah. And it's not behavior-based. It's the motivations that move your behavior, right? So it's looking at what are, I tell folks, I'm like, if you want to be comfortable, do not take the Enneagram assessment. Because it goes into like your deepest fears.

Sara Greco (19:42)
what is happening.

Okay. Yeah.

Hahaha

you

Brooke Brzozowske (20:03)
So beliefs

like the theory is that somewhere along the way, right, we've created patterns and things to protect sort of the story that we're carrying, right? And all of us show up with a story first. And a lot of my work, it's funny that you mentioned that now I'm sitting here and I'm pulling the threads on this. People come to me, leaders come to me because they've sort of outgrown an old identity and they haven't quite stepped into a new one.

Sara Greco (20:27)
Mm-hmm.

Brooke Brzozowske (20:30)
So I start with story, right? As a communicator, I'm like, okay, well, tell me who you are without accomplishments, without your performance, without achievement, who are you? And we start with story. And I often find that they're trying to protect something. So they create this persona. ⁓ interesting. Thank you, Sara. . Look at that. You're giving me some insight here too. I know, this is a great coaching conversation.

Sara Greco (20:50)
This is what happens when two coaches talk to each other. We learn more about ourselves than... ⁓

Brooke Brzozowske (20:58)
Okay.

Sara Greco (20:59)
I really like what you're mentioning because the story that we're using to protect ourselves or the story that we're not telling or sharing because we're maybe scared, it's at any point in your career, any point in your life. Like this isn't just, the generals aren't saved from this. The CEOs aren't saved from this. They're still trying to protect themselves, no matter the experience. So when you're facing these fears as a brand new manager or

Brooke Brzozowske (21:15)
else.

Sara Greco (21:23)
just entering your career, you have these stories. everyone has these stories.

Brooke Brzozowske (21:27)
Yep. I say that like story is the first set of, it's the first data set that humans ever had, right? Long before PowerPoint existed, but it was how we shared what was important to us, what we're trying to avoid, right? Trying to protect. So that's why a lot of times in the coaching work, when it comes to getting people ready for big moments and high visibility, we're looking at clarity, but clarity is not about what

what seems right, but what's really real. If you don't like the story you're telling yourself, the cool thing is you get to change it. The great gift of awareness is choice. So yeah, I love it. And I'm sitting here going, man, yep, that is the perfect marriage for me is communication and coaching. We want to start with the identity work. Yeah.

Sara Greco (22:11)
Hahaha.

is.

Living a little bit back to being under high pressure as leaders, the generals and stuff. Again, some of the highest of leaders that you've gotten to work with, which is really cool to see. But was there a moment or an anecdote that you can share where it talks about like this, this is a moment that is true leadership under pressure?

Brooke Brzozowske (22:36)
Now this one might be tough without, I don't want to say breaking some confidences here, but. ⁓

There are some big moments that I've been a part of where...

I mean, think about it from 2020 to now, right? We were looking at COVID. We were looking at the withdrawal of Afghanistan, January 6th. At some point I threw up in the back of French president's helicopter. There were a lot of moments. Yeah. I mean, there are moments where without going into a lot of specifics, you have to...

Sara Greco (23:00)
Big moment.

Brooke Brzozowske (23:08)
Leaders will come to you and they will go, OK, what do we say? And my question back, and you know this as a communicator too, is what are you doing first? But they want to know what they should say, because that's typically about performance first. And we get to anchor them back and go, OK, well, what do you want to do?

there was a time when we had a general who was retiring and we joke about like the most dangerous thing in the, in the military arsenal sometimes is a, is a general who's about to retire, right? Because they just, they're like, it is my time, swan song. Uh, and I remember this general had made some disparaging comments about another service.

Sara Greco (23:39)
Yeah.

Brooke Brzozowske (23:46)
during an engagement. And now, man, this is one of these moments where I remember thinking, this was a balance for me as a communicator and as a coach because I got it and I remember getting a call from my boss, my communication boss. they were like, all right, Brooke, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna suggest to the general that you have these options. And all of them were kind of,

two of them, both of them were a little aggressive, right? It rebuked the language, it rebuked the act, etc. I remember being like, okay, here goes, right? And I remember this was the only time I think I got feedback that was, I don't want to say that I was off the mark, but I remember this very specific, it was probably the first time for sure that I got that call. I remember I got a call from my boss at the time and he said,

Brooke, there's something you need to know about me. I remember like I'm getting a call from the boss at the moment and I'm like, okay, all right. He didn't email me back. He asked to specifically call me after he got these draft statements. And I was like, okay. He said, I'm always going to be a gentleman. Always. He said, so I'm never going to like publicly shame, right? I'm always gonna give somebody, I'm always gonna operate from a place of trust.

Sara Greco (24:39)
you

Brooke Brzozowske (24:57)
right, and talk about where we go back to, I was assuming, General Ratham 10th verse, right, and he said, so you've got to give me another option. I remember being like, shoot, right, and I'll tell you, I've worked with leaders, like, I've worked with leaders that have told me, that you learn the most about a leader in times of challenge and chaos than you do during the good days, right, and General Brown will say things like,

Sara Greco (25:06)
⁓

Brooke Brzozowske (25:21)
Every day is a good day. Some days are better than others, right? But grounding yourself in trusting people and assuming that positive intent, that's really important. And I have carried that with me now into every moment where it was some sort of crisis. It was, okay, let me take a beat here for a moment. If we want to assume the best in people first, like what does that option look like from a communication strategy, right?

And that really reopens the aperture for us as leaders, as coaches, as advisors, we start to go, okay, well, what if this was the best case scenario? How would we shift this for us? And it takes a good leader who's really grounded to sort of remind us that. And that was what happened in that moment with me where they were like, we're not reacting here. We are holding space for this and we're gonna do this in a way that is...

Sara Greco (26:08)
Mm-hmm.

Brooke Brzozowske (26:12)
that assumes generous intent.

Sara Greco (26:14)
And I imagine like you knew how you wanted to react and then you get this advisement and you're like, well, I guess this isn't the right way to go. So you might not have been necessarily authentic to you, but you're like, I guess this is the direction. And then you got feedback where it's like, ⁓ I guess I should have been authentic anyway.

Brooke Brzozowske (26:20)
Uh huh. Uh huh.

Right, let's do it.

Right. slowing down is also a lesson in that, right? And there are moments where you don't, like the courage is there, but you don't quite reach it at that moment, right? And you sort of put it aside. I know the term imposter syndrome is probably used over and over again, but it is. It's still like, you still carry it with you occasionally, it sneaks in and go, man, I didn't even think about that. Right.

So yeah, that was probably a high pressure moment for me to get sort of that feedback. And then I joke, I say feedback is like the greatest gift ever, especially for senior leaders who write you three or four word and emails back, thanks for, great, or one word, dot dot dot, because like people who use ellipses scare the shit out of me. I'm like, wait, what does that mean? When I say thank you, dot dot dot, I'm like, is that bad? Did I? Right, so.

Sara Greco (27:14)
you

Brooke Brzozowske (27:17)
Yeah, feedback is the greatest gift ever. And then to get it in high pressure situations, to hold it lightly, right? Because I could not be so attached to it that it would ruin me for future moments, right? That like, I'm like, okay, I just got the biggest gift under the tree, which was the gift of feedback. Yeah.

Sara Greco (27:21)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, and that wasn't

the person's intent either. It wasn't just to knock you down. It was just basically like Brooke. Yeah.

Brooke Brzozowske (27:41)
Yeah, let's talk about this. Yeah.

But in moments where, right, everybody's watching you and these senior leaders, they do, ⁓ especially in high visibility roles. I remember leaving interviews sometimes and

I think people can just really be jerks in interviews, right? Whether it's media or some other public engagement. And I remember sometimes some of the comments were...

Sara Greco (27:56)
Are you talking about media interviews? Or job interviews? Okay.

Brooke Brzozowske (28:04)
Yeah, extremely derogatory or things like that. I remember leaving and getting like so pissed off for the senior leaders, right? Because when you work for someone and you choose to continue to work with them, you're all in, right? You're like, you're a part of their, you're part of their coaching tree now, right? In the sports term here. But I remember leaving and I remember, again, this was a senior leader gave me this lesson. He's like, Brooke, I don't get to have publicly bad days, right?

I don't, we have to, we have to maintain that like grounded energy, right? We have to stay firm so that others can do the same too. And that was really telling for me too. And it gave me a perspective of where they're coming from and what they have to gain and what they have to lose in these positions of high visibility, right? It's tough work and my heart goes out to them, right? Especially if you're the.

first in a situation or, you know, and you don't want to be the last, right? There's a lot of work that goes into creating space for yourself and for others to follow. And that's an intentionality and leadership, right? Knowing before you go in, I joke, but like, if it all goes to hell, right? If the first question goes so poorly, like, what are we, what are we walking away from here? What do want people to know? And that's also a way I prep folks now.

Sara Greco (29:16)
Mm-hmm.

as we are talking about these leaders in these seasons, there's a lot of values that probably align with how they approach and do their leadership style. And.

kind of create their authenticity. And it sounds like through your coaching practice, you help leaders realign their values with what they're doing at the time, whether it's leading a team or leading an initiative. So what does that process look like to kind of align their values, especially when you're in such a high stakes position or a season that's really critical?

Brooke Brzozowske (29:49)
Typically when I meet new leaders, here's the way this would happen. I'm a chronic note taker, right? Like I, and I try to really try to organize my notes before I go in and the buckets that I want them in, right? I'm pretty intentional about that. And so I'll tell you, sorry, I met this one senior leader who was trying out

for a public engagement, a very public engagement. at the end, he had asked for feedback around the room, but we didn't get a chance to get to some of those on the wall, right? And so I leaned over and gave to his aid a couple of notes. I did not know, but like, I did not know how that would work, but sure enough, I got called in like the next day to give some feedback. And I remember the rest of the staff saw that I was on the calendar and they're

Oh, well, we're coming, we're coming, right? Like, well, we have feedback too. And I was like, oh, this is probably going to be more of a coaching conversation because that's what I know how to do, right? I can give feedback, but it always feels incomplete if I just walk in and give feedback, right? So the first thing you do is I walk in and eventually all the staff got cleared out. But you walk in and you say, all right, do I have your permission?

Would it be okay with you if I shared some observations? They are simply observations. And then we get to decide what we want to do with them, if anything at all. But asking that permission is key. It is not just to show up and go, okay, well, here are my thoughts. Nope. Yeah. Hold it very lightly. If they do not seem like they're in the mood, I say this before, the right conversation and the wrong mood is the wrong conversation. We don't have that one.

Sara Greco (31:10)
Mm-hmm, throw it at them.

Brooke Brzozowske (31:22)
Now do know that I was asked to come in and give this. So I mean, to the senior leaders credit, like they were ready to receive. And so you give feedback and then you go, okay, how does that plan? What do you want to do with it? And more importantly, right, we set that intention upfront. Like, do I have permission? What do you want to be known as? What do you want people to feel? What's important to you about that feeling?

Right, so we're aligning, we're starting with permission, we're starting with intention, like what do want people to know, feel, think about you? And then we're moving into, well, what about these observations supports or doesn't support that in your perspective? And then after every engagement, like say they would go out and do a public engagement somewhere, I never jumped into feedback immediately. I would ask them,

every senior leader and they probably got annoyed at this at some point. But I would say, all right, on a scale of one to 10, give me a number. Where do you land on it? How would you grade yourself here? And they would give me some number like six, seven. I'm like, okay, well, what would we have done to get you to an eight or nine? And then I would watch them walk through it because this is about them instilling that learning. Sometimes just dropping information at somebody.

is not helpful. It does not store in the same place in that brain, whereas if you come to that realization yourself. And so based on what would come out of that, I would ask more questions. But most of my feedback, 90 % of it is question based. Right? Okay. Well, what do you want to do with all of that observation that you have? Okay. When do you want that by? Right? And then that's it. Everything is self guided for them. And that is the difference between

Sara Greco (32:55)
Mm-hmm.

Brooke Brzozowske (32:59)
giving feedback and having a coaching conversation with someone where that learning can really deepen for them. And that actually is so empowering to people.

Sara Greco (33:08)
It gives them the opportunity to do what they authentically know is right.

Brooke Brzozowske (33:13)
Yep. And honestly, I mean, the bonus of that kind of conversation is that it creates trust so quickly. So if you are looking to be an advisor or be asked back into the room, have a coaching conversation instead of a telling or an advice conversation. Right? The amount of trust that was established in a short meeting with a leader like that, where they're like, oh,

Sara Greco (33:24)
Mm-hmm.

Brooke Brzozowske (33:36)
this person let me be me, allowed me to choose my own adventure, right? This is what I want. That's almost, it's so rare, I suspect, in places like that, that the oddity of it is. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I assume they're not. don't have a lot of senior leaders I've worked with or for that go, oh yeah, people just really.

Sara Greco (33:49)
It's just, gets the wheels turning.

because you're not used to it.

Brooke Brzozowske (34:00)
really give me lot of time and space to think. No, instead they're bombarded with finders and decks and decisions and people reading slides to them. But to be able to sit down and have a conversation about what's important to you and what you want to do with that, that's it.

Sara Greco (34:03)
Yeah.

email.

Mm-hmm.

It's so interesting

because the theme that I'm hearing is space. It's like giving the space to think, giving a space to pause, giving a space to be and to reflect. With those, it's so much power.

Brooke Brzozowske (34:24)
Good night.

Yeah, it is. It's about holding that space. Hopefully in that space, you're building alignment instead of prioritizing that achievement. But yeah, you're right. It's totally about.

Sara Greco (34:36)
you.

Brooke Brzozowske (34:41)
It's totally about space. And the thing is, is that space does not have to take a ton of time. A great question can land and can change. Yeah, it can change the course of a day for a leader or weeks, you know? Yeah.

Sara Greco (34:53)
Did

you ever have the leaders coming to you being like, hey, can you just ask me like a really good question?

Brooke Brzozowske (34:59)
Yeah, I actually met with a group recently and they asked me what the worst question was. And I have two that I actually really don't like. I do not like, have you thought about?

hate that question because it's not a question. It's advice disguised as a question. Yeah, it's like, hey, let me tell you my opinion on something and just disguise it as a question. People do not respond well to that. Have you thought about it? It's extremely cuts legs out from people and their creative energy coming up with their own solutions to their own problems, right? So have you thought about the other one I hate are you doing? Because

Sara Greco (35:13)
and it's a way to give your opinion.

Brooke Brzozowske (35:33)
We've worked in buildings that are pretty big, right? The exterior of the Pentagon is like 1.3 miles or something like that. When you're walking down a hall and you see someone, the worst question you can ask is, hey, how are you doing? Good. And then you keep going. Or my favorite is like, the dream, right? Some sort of bumper sticker. Instead, what I challenge people to ask is, what's good today?

I love shifting into gratitude very quickly because again, and it's like a such a move, people associate that feeling of gratitude with you now. And you want to talk about creating trust quickly, right? Like what's good today? Right? What's the best part of your day? And even that, man, lunch was pretty good. Even that could just simply shift a day for somebody. Sometimes a great question makes a difference.

Sara Greco (36:16)
Yeah. here instead of. Yeah,

getting thrown information versus getting to ask a question, getting to provide that pause in space to think about, actually lunch was good. What?

Brooke Brzozowske (36:27)
Yeah,

yeah, yeah. Some days the best thing is just that cup of coffee in the morning. I get it, but like...

Sara Greco (36:34)
That's

usually one of the five on my gratitude journal. A cup of coffee. I have an espresso. Like, why wouldn't I be grateful for this?

Brooke Brzozowske (36:36)
Yeah, yeah.

Amen. Mine is like the sound of my pug snoring. I know it's weird, like, can't say I'm people chewing, but the sound of my pug snoring.

Sara Greco (36:48)
It's cute. So there's been a journey that you've come on where you're leading people and now you're leading yourself in your own coaching practice fully.

Brooke Brzozowske (36:57)
is me.

Yep. Leading myself is.

I'm learning it's about becoming the boss I want to work for.

Right?

Sometimes I'm really hard on myself. And if I was a leader, I don't know. I don't know that I would want to work for that kind of leader. So giving myself a lot of grace, some days to just to let it go and to stop anticipating the loss. When things are really good, it feels a little scary.

But yeah, it is now about trusting myself, leading myself. I'm a learner. To get into the coaching program I did, remember we had to do essays to get you in there. And one of the questions they ask you is, what's something you've changed your mind about recently?

Right? That's always a tough one. And I love to ask leaders that along the way. And I find if I'm struggling with it, that that's a chance for me to start digging in a little bit more. Right? Like what have I, what neural pathway have I really just deepened in the last couple of months that I have not challenged? What context do I need to change to start looking at something from a different perspective? Right? So that's about leading. I got it. Yeah.

Sara Greco (37:59)
Sorry.

What would you say was the change of the neural pathway that led you to coaching full time?

Brooke Brzozowske (38:07)
Man, so many things.

I definitely, well, let me back up here. I had been doing coaching part-time since about 2019 and I had leaders who supported and I think really embraced that paid forward for them too, right? Like I got to go work in the sports industry, folks who know me know that I did not come from a sports background, right? The last time I ran was like 2016, like that was because I had to.

Sara Greco (38:28)
Yeah.

Brooke Brzozowske (38:31)
There's nothing about me that speaks that. So I'd been doing it for a while and it was a stretch for me. It was good for me to go out and see things, leadership in a different domain, see how that showed And so I had been doing that on the side for a while. And I remember like I'd sit down with my closest friends and family and they'd be like, Brooke, why aren't you doing this? Like it was just so evident to everyone else, but not to me. And there was a lot of fear about who I would be.

Sara Greco (38:40)
Okay.

Brooke Brzozowske (38:55)
beyond almost 20 years of this work in communications and the federal government, it becomes such a piece of your identity. And it took a good conversation with a dear coach friend of mine to be like, Brooke, why are you grieving this loss? She was like, aren't you taking it with you?

Right? And I was like, she was like, why does it have to be a goodbye? Why can't it be just you pack this all up and take it with you? And for whatever reason, it was just like, that hit me like a ton of bricks. Like, I don't have to choose either or, it can be an and. And right, I think sometimes in our life, we get sort of stoved typed into these hilarities, right? Into these ideas that it's either this or that. But that and in between is harder for us to see.

Sara Greco (39:17)
It's just that, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Brooke Brzozowske (39:39)
So this is still Brooke, right? Somebody who believes in service and defense of our nation, national security. And it's also Brooke now who gets to run her own calendar and who believes that leaders should find their voice because we need more authenticity in this world, not less. And a world that continues to be automated and everything, right? Now a human connection is going to become even more needed. So.

Sara Greco (39:58)
hang on and all the things.

Brooke Brzozowske (40:05)
It's an and for me and it's expansive rather than constrictive. And so reframing that for me was really, think, changed that neural pathway. it took, again, it a good question, a great conversation. It also took challenging some fears, right? I have a great husband who sat down with financial advisors, right? He was supportive in all of this. Like, let's figure out a way to make this happen. And it's been great.

So I have no complaints. have, I think I'm actually scared of my therapist at this point. I tried to break up with her because like life was so good. And she was like, are you crazy? She was like, have this many clients. She was like, you are not going anywhere without having somewhere to like hold space for you too. And I was like, fair, fair. My friends thank you. So yeah.

Sara Greco (40:36)
And then you're like, actually, no, have a question.

Part of your support.

That's amazing. I mean, I'm so happy to hear it. And I agree with all of your friends. This is such a great journey for you. And I'm not surprised at all. I'm only seeing the impact that you're making.

how do see yourself personally growing your leadership and refining your own leadership as you're growing into this leadership coaching business or just your coaching business in general?

Brooke Brzozowske (41:12)
Ooh. So I, I firmly believe based on all the work I've been doing with leaders, that leadership is intentional. And I know that sounds so silly, but like, there's not this thing that like leaders are just born naturally great leaders. It is done through intention. And every great leader I've worked for has one habit that's daily and they reflect.

Sara Greco (41:31)
Mmm.

Brooke Brzozowske (41:32)
There is some built in either in the morning and the afternoon both, but there's some form of reflection. So I meet with clients all day long and after each call, I am literally reflecting on how I felt, how they seemed, right? Like I am going through reflection talk through what I noticed. I take a walk, I reset. I still hire my own coach, right? So I believe in coaching so much that I...

do it myself, right? I have a coach myself. I mentor others. That's a new one for me. Like I'm now mentoring and paying it forward. I am studying the Enneagram, right? I am moving into spaces that are new for me all the time to kind of stretch me. And I have a friend who's a good therapist also now who said, every time you get off a call with someone, it sort of brings up something in you too, right? And so really being

Sara Greco (42:06)
Mm-hmm.

Brooke Brzozowske (42:24)
aware of that, right, and being intentional with that so that it's like you have to do your own work alongside your clients. That's why this is a partnership, right? You're agreeing to do this together. It's not like I can just turn off all of me every time I show up for someone. I have to acknowledge that we're doing this together at some point. So for me, that reflection exercise and like even this, this conversation is incredible for reflection.

Sara Greco (42:33)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. When it creates, you're like, okay, well, the reflection piece, and then what feels most authentic to me in this moment? Talking about creating intention, but authenticity leads into intention, usually, I would say. And then figuring out that authenticity and building the intentionality. Can't see that without reflection.

Brooke Brzozowske (43:11)
Yeah, I literally had a coach a couple years ago who made me such a hard exercise for me. He had me right out on paper, old school, my ideal day. And he said, I want you to do it from the moment you open your eyes to like, I want you to describe the floors that you put your feet on when you get out of bed. Man, it took me weeks to really walk through what an ideal day would be.

it weeks, probably closer to a month. And by the time I finally turned it in, right, the gift that I got was that I had two coaches look at it and pull out theme. And it helped me start to make decisions based on the things that I really valued, right? They pulled out my themes, my values, right? And I got to look at them and go, okay, this makes sense for me. So I got to make choices like that. And Sara. , I pulled up that, that ideal day a couple of weeks ago.

I try not to tear up talking about it, but I am living my ideal life right now. Right? I, yeah, I am living it. And that is, it's an incredible gift. So my goal is to keep paying it forward because I had a mentor of mine who said like, it's great, you've hustled, you've done all this work and now what are you doing for others? Right?

Sara Greco (44:08)
That's amazing.

Brooke Brzozowske (44:24)
So I'm trying to find ways to still pay that forward with a younger generation of coaches too. Like I want that. I want to see more of that for my Gen Z stepdaughter and think they're all gonna need a lot of love. ⁓

Sara Greco (44:37)
Yeah, well, just providing the space for people. And I love that you brought up values. Like, we've talked a little bit around it and a little bit of it, but without knowing what your values are, how do you figure out what you want? How do you figure out how you want to be with that intentionality?

Brooke Brzozowske (44:57)
Yeah, this is in the NCAA space that I work in, in that college sports realm. There's a good friend of mine Peter, who talks about values of conviction versus values of convenience. Right? And the idea that what you really want is for those values to be boiling up from inside of you, right? From inside that gut. Right? How many times have we been to...

promotion ceremonies, retirement ceremonies, where we talk about like, what do people think? They thank they're family, God, right? And those are important, but I challenge folks, I'm like, are those values? Are they hobbies, right? If you can tell me two to three things you do every day in support of your top values, then great. They are, you're literally living in alignment with those values. If not, they're a little bit more aspirational and we've got some work to do, right? There's some dissonance there.

You can have values that are aspirational. There's no, not knocking that. It's simply that there might feel a gap there for you. That's where that energy is expended.

Sara Greco (45:54)
Yep. And it's interesting to hear people talk about things that are annoying them or where they're struggling, that energy that's being expended that you just mentioned. I'm like, well, it sounds like something's out of alignment with your values.

Brooke Brzozowske (45:58)
Mm-hmm.

Right? Yep, you've grown out of it.

Sara Greco (46:08)
So if you don't even know what your

values are, it's like a whole journey of reflection to try to figure that out so that you can immediately and quickly figure it out. Be like, oh, I wasn't, I wasn't courageous. I didn't take that step to be like courageous today. Like I really value being, having the courage to do something. And I didn't take that step today. So that's why I'm annoyed.

Brooke Brzozowske (46:25)
Yep,

mentioned a gratitude journal. Gratitude is a great way to start noticing some of those values too, right? You start noticing what you're thankful for and you're like, ⁓ those are the things I'm looking for in my life. Yeah.

Sara Greco (46:36)
Mm-hmm.

When I first started

doing a gratitude journal, it was so interesting to see, because I was doing it because of the dopamine hit. You're like, yeah, I want to feel happy. And then I reflected upon the past weeks, and I realized every single time I had lunch with a friend, I was having it on that gratitude. I was like, well, why wouldn't I do that more? It's so interesting. The connection of the value of mine. Yeah.

Brooke Brzozowske (46:58)
community. Hell yeah. That's great.

Yep. Building space for that.

Sara Greco (47:04)
Yeah, so reflection is the leadership skill that you are building and you would recommend for others. Sounds like, yeah.

Brooke Brzozowske (47:09)
sure. sure. Yep.

I get to help others do it all day long. Now I have to do it myself, right?

Sara Greco (47:17)
Yeah,

definitely. Well, I would like to roll into, if you're open to it, a rapid fire question. I have three ready for you. I've been closing all my conversations with this, just something fun, light. ⁓ But before we roll into that, is there anything that you think is super important to bring up in this conversation or in light of this conversation that you would like to share?

Brooke Brzozowske (47:24)
boy.

Okay.

I am super grateful for the gift that I have been given to start this new chapter in my life. And I really hope that others find that trust and that sort of leap of faith too. Because man, I joke about it, like the first forty years were all research. Now I get to do this. Now I get to really live the life I want in alignment with what's important to me.

I guess I want folks to trust themselves that if it's meant to be, the universe is going to put you where you need to be.

Sara Greco (48:11)
Mm-hmm. That's amazing.

Are you ready for the rapid fire questions? Okay. So you talked about leadership development and some classes that you worked with for the NCAA. What's your favorite sports team?

Brooke Brzozowske (48:16)
Let's do it.

Sara Greco (48:25)
Yeah

Brooke Brzozowske (48:26)
⁓

my god, my parents are going to hear this because of my husband. I have to say the Packers because I married into that family now. And apparently they're America's team. But I guess the Cowboys get really mad about that, which I'm also originally from Texas, so. But we're going with Packers.

Sara Greco (48:34)
Okay.

Okay,

we're gonna keep this all secret. So this obviously is not gonna be for it anywhere. So Packers and Cowboys, okay. Moving on. What would you say is your favorite story or book?

Brooke Brzozowske (48:44)
yeah, for sure, nobody will find out.

Yeah, sure.

Hmm. Khalil Gibran, The Prophet. ⁓ Khalil Gibran's The Prophet. When I was a young girl, yep, my grandfather gave me that book to read after we were done playing dominoes one morning. And it, yeah, it is, I still read it to this day. I've read it a thousand times. It's important to, it's an important part of my relationship with him. So yeah.

Sara Greco (48:57)
Say it again.

Yeah. Okay.

amazing. And then last question, favorite leader dead or alive that you or somebody who you admire that you would want to have

Brooke Brzozowske (49:24)
Goodness. mean, that's tough because I get to have dinner with my leaders, with my heroes today. I, I mean, I really like, again, I have had the honor of working alongside, ⁓ for General Brown a couple of times now. ⁓ and yeah, he's incredible. him and his wife, Jareen, ⁓ Sam Neal, they're great staff like that came alongside and in the Air Force side and on the Joint Force side. I mean, I get to work with.

Sara Greco (49:29)
my gosh, that's just so cute. I love it.

Brooke Brzozowske (49:51)
leaders who are still making a difference today. Yeah, so it's hard for me to want to go back when my reality is still so, it's still so real. So.

Sara Greco (49:59)
It's,

you literally get to live the dream. Like you're living your dream. How cool is that?

Brooke Brzozowske (50:01)
I do. I do.

It's incredible. yeah, there are so many lessons learned that I've taken away in the last five, 10 years. Yeah, a lot of those leaders still keep me around. So I still get to do that. I still get to do that good work. I love it.

Sara Greco (50:16)
Look at you go. That's great.

Well, thank you so much for coming on the show again. Always love chatting with you. I've learned so much from you. I hope that the audience takes this and has an opportunity to reflect and see how they can live authentically and live through their values and in alignment with their values. But overall, just I thoroughly enjoy these. So these are just mostly fun for me.

Brooke Brzozowske (50:24)
Thank you.

Yeah.

Thank you. Yeah. And if you want to find me, LinkedIn is a great place to start or my website till now coaching.com. Yep. T I L now coaching.com. looking forward to continuing to meet amazing leaders and maybe have dinner with them.

Sara Greco (50:48)
It's till now coaching.

Thank you so much. I'll make sure to put that information in the show notes and until next time.

Brooke Brzozowske (51:03)
Awesome.

Thanks, Sara. .