71. Building your Authentic Leadership Style with Lacey Vestal

What does it actually mean to build your own leadership style?

In this episode of Lead Into It, Sara sits down with Navy Captain Lacey Vestal to explore the journey of becoming an authentic leader in environments that often reward conformity, hierarchy, and playing it safe. From attending the Naval Academy to leading in high pressure military environments, recruiting top talent, and finding her voice in senior leadership roles, Lacey shares the experiences that shaped her approach to leadership.

Together, they unpack authentic leadership, emotional intelligence, confidence, imposter syndrome, and the idea that many leaders spend too much time waiting to feel ready instead of stepping forward and growing into the role.

They also explore an often overlooked leadership topic: wellness. Lacey shares how fitness, self leadership, and building healthier workplace cultures have influenced the way she leads and develops others.

If you’ve ever questioned your leadership style, struggled to trust yourself, or wondered how to lead without losing who you are, this conversation is for you.

In this episode, we cover:
• Building your leadership style over time
• Authentic leadership in high pressure environments
• Confidence vs. competence
• Navigating imposter syndrome
• Emotional intelligence and the future of leadership
• Lessons from military leadership
• Fitness, wellness, and sustainable leadership
• Finding your voice as a leader

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Lacey's Journey
03:56 Choosing the Naval Academy
06:46 Life on Deck: Early Leadership Experiences
09:25 Transitioning from Sea to Shore Duty
12:15 Navigating Leadership Challenges as a Woman
14:58 The Importance of Authentic Leadership
17:40 Building Authentic Leadership Skills
20:16 Finding Your Leadership Style
23:11 The Power of Introversion in Leadership
27:20 Finding Authenticity in Leadership
28:33 Navigating Imposter Syndrome
31:42 The Role of Intuition in Leadership
34:11 Fitness as a Path to Confidence
38:46 Integrating Personal Passions into Leadership
42:39 Trust-Based Leadership
46:06 The Future of Leadership and Female Energy
50:20 Embracing Authenticity and Doing Hard Things

Let’s keep the conversation going—connect with me on Instagram and LinkedIn, subscribe to my weekly newsletter, or reach out at hello@leadintoit.co. 

Excited to be with you!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

You're listening to episode 71 of the podcast. Hi there and welcome back to Lead Into It. I'm your host, Sarah Greco. For this episode, I'm joined by Lacey Vestel, a Navy captain whose leadership journey has taken her from the Naval Academy to deployments in the Western Pacific, to Pentagon HR work, to recruiting leadership and command in Nashville. What stood out to me most wasn't just her resume, but it was the way that she actually talked about leadership. There was this really grounded, authentic approach to it that was humble and really inspiring. So during this conversation, we talk about what it actually looks like to build your own leadership style instead of trying to lead like everyone else around you. We dive into authenticity, emotional leadership, imposter syndrome, confidence, and the pressure so many, so many leaders feel to have it all figured out before stepping into those bigger roles. We also talk about wellness, fitness, and how taking care of yourself impacts the way that you show up for people you lead. Lacey shares some really powerful perspectives on finding your voice, leading in high-pressure environments, and learning that confidence often comes after action, not before it. This was such a fun conversation that shows how just being yourself is sometimes really the best thing to do. So with that, let's get into it. Lacey, thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm so excited to talk with you and to learn more about your background. I think now looking back, I think you're the first Navy person I've had on the show. I've only had Air Force, okay, an Army. I don't think I've had Navy and I've had Marine. Yay! I get all the branches now. Well, hopefully I set the bar high. Yes, exactly. That's that's the whole intention. I loved chatting with you a couple months ago. We met at a conference and it was so interesting learning about your background. And we've been following each other on social media, and I'm so glad you reached out. You went to the Naval Academy. I did, yeah. So I love to hear your leadership story about how first you decided to go to the Naval Academy, which is a really big deal and a gorgeous campus. Like I did a volleyball camp there back in high school. Yeah. And it was incredible, but also intense. Uh and then kind of what brought you to today. And you are a captain, which is incredible. So I'd love to hear that story and kind of start from there.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Absolutely. And and and first of all, thank you, Sarah, for having me on. Um it's it's really been a pleasure to stay connected with you since we met last year. I love your work and all that you do. So um, yeah, really happy to be here today and get the conversation going. So, yeah, you know, I I wish I had a more exciting uh story about why and how I chose the Naval Academy, but it was very similar, I think, probably to your experience. Once you go there, there's just something really special about that place. Um, the history of Annapolis in that area. Um, the campus is just beautiful on the water. Um, and then when you think about the the caliber of the education um and and the true leadership laboratory that you're becoming a part of, I just couldn't, I couldn't pass it up. Um, so no real family history of service.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Yeah, yeah. I was such a unique story. You're one of the few that I've heard don't have like a legacy of some sort.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Yeah. And in fact, I grew up in northeastern Pennsylvania, so a little small town uh up in the Pocono Mountains. And so I ended up educating my guidance counselor in high school about service academies because there just wasn't a ton of interest um where I grew up, even though we're actually fairly close in terms of location to West Point. But bottom line, I was a I was a competitive swimmer in high school. There was a friend of mine on the swim team. He was applying, he was a year ahead of me. Uh he told me all about it. I got super interested because I knew I wanted something a little bit different than the traditional college experience. And the academy certainly provided that. So that's definitely not a traditional college experience. No, no. And so I went up there, or down there, I should say, from Pennsylvania in uh my junior year of high school and did their summer seminar program. Cool. Just a week of, you know, they run you around, treat you like a midshipman. And I loved it. I was hooked. Uh I got yelled at. I had to do push-ups and I was like, You're like, that's slower. Yeah, exactly. Exactly right. So yeah. So I started there in the summer of 2000, graduated in 2004. You know, I went to Annapolis not knowing if I wanted to drive a ship or fly a plane or become a Marine, right? And the options were options. Yeah. And they were limited. Exactly. Back in in the early 2000s when I graduated, um, you know, at the end of the day, I chose something that really got me out on the deck plate and experiencing leadership and becoming a leader at really the earliest possible point in my career. So it was, you know, I graduated from the academy in in late May of 2004. And one month later, I was on the deck of a guided missile destroyer uh based out of Harbor, Hawaii, brand new ensign with a huge division of um, you know, enlisted sailors, uh, some as old, if not older than me. And I was the boss, right? So what a what a great way to put those leadership, those new leadership skills to the test on day one.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Oh, that's incredible. For the audience, what does it mean to be on deck?

SPEAKER_02 5:03

Yeah, I think from just a quality of life perspective, it is definitely close quarters, right? It's it's not an aircraft carrier, right? It's I was on a smaller ship, a crew of about 300. And interesting, in fact, it was um right at the time where they were kind of doing the crew swaps and the birthing adjustments. So my ship, the enlisted crew, was not mixed gender. It was only the officer wardroom. So when I showed up, there were, I think, six females total on a crew of 300. And by the time I left, yeah, there were, there were two of us left. And that was by no means other than the normal detailing process. And later on, that ship got outfitted for an entirely female crew. But um, you know, that was, yeah, it really was. It was kind of one of those last platforms to get that modification. So uh it felt like the old school Navy for sure. But again, had a great experience there, did two Western Pacific deployments. Um, you know, between six, seven, or eight months at a stint, uh, and you are living, you know, the Navy 24-7. So you've got your day job, you know, as an officer, as a junior officer. So running a department, and that's the administration, that's the personnel management, that's, you know, the the gear and equipment and upkeep. I was my first uh job, I was the anti-submarine warfare officer. So I was in charge of yeah, all of the sonar equipment uh on deck. So um, you know, the all the maintenance uh associated with that. So that was kind of your day job. And then you were also expected to get your officer of the deck qualification, right? So that, you know, so you're uh essentially able to drive and navigate the ship on behalf of the ship's commanding officer, right? So in the middle of the night, you're the most senior person on that bridge and you are leading a very small team and piloting and navigating that ship. So you're also, you know, in addition to your day job, studying for that qualification. And it takes about a year or two to earn it. And so when you earn that qualification, you are a qualified ship driver, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:57

So every officer goes through and becomes a qualified ship driver. That's so interesting because obviously in the Air Force, like there's specific pilots. So every officer does not know how to fly a plane, but every officer in the Navy knows how to drive a ship. Every surface warfare officer. But still, yes.

SPEAKER_02 7:15

That's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. So so again, great, great experience there, leadership at the very highest level at the most junior rank. And I got two deployments uh under my belt there.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Well, that's awesome. So obviously you're a captain now, 06. You've had a journey in between being an NCN and your first on-deck experience and all of that to now. What would you say were some of the highlights of your career that really built you into the leader you are today?

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Yeah, so I think it was that very, it felt, you know, quick. It feels quick in retrospect, but probably was not at the time. But that transition from sea to shore duty, right? And the Navy does a good job of allowing you to be at sea for a couple of years and then come back to shore duty and take a desk job. And, you know, if you're interested in starting a family or earning a degree, you you finally have some time to do that. It's a great, uh, it's a great way to suck folks right back into that next sea tour because you finally get to experience a bit of the good life and you're like, hey, I think, I think I can do that, that at sea thing again. But that wasn't necessarily my experience. Uh, I loved my time at sea. But when I got to shore duty in San Diego, uh, I learned that Navy had uh an HR community. You know, uh Navy does HR like every other, you know, big, big organization out there. So it was right around the time where I had finished my five-year minimum service requirements at the Academy. Um, and I could have gotten out, but I got a call from the from the head HR detailer and he said, Hey, would you consider this community? It was very new at the time. And I said, Yeah, let's let's give it a shot, right? And so that really was pivotal in allowing me to continue a career of service in a way that felt a lot more manageable across the course of a long-term career. So that was yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Being at sea your entire time, while it probably has a lot of really cool and interesting aspects, and you get to see things firsthand and really be in the thick of it. I imagine it does take a toll and you just want to be on land sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

It does. And you know, again, like I said, when I left that first ship, it was me and one other female, and she was senior to you, right? She was a department head, and she she was essentially what I would be had I gone through those those shore duty tours and gone back to sea, right? And I think we'll probably get into this later, but it's so important in whatever line of work that you're in to have someone that you can look to who's at that next step and say, gosh, I want to be like them, right? I want to be like her. And I didn't have that. You know, she was, and again, a true professional, right? But but just exhausted and really you could tell the the grind of being at sea had gotten to her. And to me, I was like, I'm not sure that's for me, right? So as I've navigated my career since then, I've always tried to, and it's hard, right? Balance quality of life and the profession because I think it sets a really good example for young junior officers to follow. Like, hey, I can do both, I can have it all as I navigate a career in service.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Yeah. And I imagine that, and I don't know if this is the case anymore or it was back then, but I imagine that being a woman also has a different type of connotation when it comes to doing the type of work that you were on a ship and kind of building your career too. It's almost like it's a little bit more challenging, or um, I may be wrong in that too. I I've been pleasantly surprised in both ways, where it's like some people are like, isn't it challenging being a woman in the service? I'm like, actually, I get more respect in my uniform than I do sometimes on the outside. So, but there are there are some things where it's like like the line is always shorter in the bathroom. Like I appreciate that. But then other times I'm like, I actually know what I'm talking about, guys. Like, calm down. Like, let's let's bring it down a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Yeah. No, I've had a very similar to your kind of latter experience. That has been mine. And again, it's like when people ask those questions, like, how how has your experience been as a female, you know, leader in the Navy? I think they're looking for more of a sound bite or a story, and I just don't have one. You know, I I've shown up and I continue to show up every single day and work my hardest. And that's not to be the best woman in the room, right? That's to be the best leader, hands down in that room. And that has served me really well. And I've just never run into any issues where I've either been disadvantaged because of my gender or have had to use my gender to my advantage, right? It's it's been an equal playing field, and I'm so proud to say that.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

Amazing, amazing. I love to hear that. So when going to the Naval Academy, you obviously know at the end of that you're going to be an officer. So you're going to lead teams, you're going to be kind of in charge of the things and responsible for all of those people. How did you decide that that was the direction you wanted to go, knowing what responsibility leadership held?

SPEAKER_02 11:58

I think it was, you know, it seems again one of those decisions. It's like, man, that should have been harder than it was. And probably going through it, it just was very much more cut and dry, right? There are only a few options in terms of unrestricted line service when you make your career decision as a Navy officer. And like I said, surface warfare was the one, you know, if if you become an aviator, for example, you go through several years of flight training, right? Which is very personally focused. You're learning how to operate that aircraft, you're studying a lot. There's no, there's no real team dynamic in that. And for me, like I said, I was able to get commissioned, get right out to the fleet, and lead from day one. And that was really important to me.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

What do you think one of the biggest lessons you learned early on in those first couple of years that you still carry with you today?

SPEAKER_02 12:46

Wow, that's a great question. I think a lot in terms of expectation management. And that comes, yeah, that goes to mind because I talk about it a lot with my students now at the recording schoolhouse. But and this is just one example of many, but you know, the the Navy chief petty officer is such a storied and coveted enlisted rank in our service. Yeah. You know, as you go through the academy, you know, you're you're you're taught, right? Listen to your chief, like the the chief, the chief knows. Ask your chief. And I got to my first ship, and to be very honest, I did, and this was the exception, right? Not the rule, but I did not have my first two division chiefs were just not that strong, right? One was real, he had been passed over for promotion several times. So he was just kind of on the way out and didn't have, you know, the level of care or enthusiasm or passion that I had hoped he would. And the other one was brand new and still trying to navigate how to be not be a first-class petty officer anymore and how to really step into that khaki role. So I found myself doing a lot of mentorship there and not being mentored. So I think that really showed me that even those big themes, those big lessons learned that were taught early on in our leadership careers don't always stand the test out in the real world. And you have to kind of figure out, you have to be adaptable, you have to be agile, you have to be resilient and figure out how to make the best of a non-ideal situation.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

That's so interesting because they do in the military, you're always have that advisor, that's somebody who's like essentially holding your hand as you're learning about what it actually means to lead. Cause you, I would say most times are the youngest as you're leading a group that's a lot more experienced than you in a lot of different areas. They're the experts in their areas. And to have to navigate that without that mentorship is so tough.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

It's so tough. Yes. Um, so what was it like to have the first chief petty officer that was like super good, that was just a really good course mentor.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

Such a blessing. Yeah. And so it was when I stepped into the navigator role, which was a more seasoned, like a second tour division officer job. So I really needed that. He was a he was a quartermaster. I really needed that strong chief up there on the bridge of that ship with me. And he delivered it. Yes, it was such a testament to the power of teamwork and like the synergy that we had just completely resonated throughout our whole division.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

I think it's better to have it the reverse, to not have it and then to have it because you have to figure it out first. Yeah. So once you have it, you're like, what a gift. During those moments, I imagine there was a lot of high pressure situations where you had to either make a decision really quick or one that you weren't sure was the right one, or people were testing your command presence or something like that. Is there an anecdote or a story that you have where it's from a high pressure situation that really kind of shapes uh some of your leadership decisions today?

SPEAKER_02 15:47

Yeah. And again, it comes to uh front of mine because I was just talking about it with my current deputy at work the other day, but there's only two times where I've lost my cool in in my Navy career. And the first was as an ensign, you know, on that ship. And it was, you know, something, something trivial, right? We had an inspection, a division inspection. We were going to be inspected by the executive officer and my sailors, you know, they had the head watch the night before and just didn't clean the spaces, right? Again, something really simple. And I knew it. Uh the chief gave me a heads up. And, you know, I went down there to lay down the law, right? And so I thought about being really forceful and aggressive and things that are not innate to me, right? That were really not part of my personality. And that's how I led that one-way conversation with that division. And while it did have the desired effect, I remember like storming out of the space and slamming the door. It just, it just felt so contrary to who I am at my core. It was a great lesson in I need to lead in a way that is aligned with who I am as a person. And I and I know we're going to touch on authenticity later, but I think I went on to see that, yes, maybe that worked in the moment, but I knew that it just didn't sit quite right with me. And I never went back to that as a tool in my toolkit. And I think that was a great lesson for me up front in terms of leading from a place of authenticity.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Yeah. And it's, I love that you brought that up because in the military, everyone's like, do you get yelled at a lot? Blah, blah, blah. And it's once you're out of the training environment, it's very rare that that happens again. Yes. And so it's very, you're almost putting on this character because you're like, I'm wearing a uniform. I should be hard charging and not necessarily yell, but be stern. Yeah. And so it's a, it's kind of a mind game in a way, because you put on this uniform and you want to put on a different persona and then come to find out that being your authentic self is actually exactly what everyone needed. And to show that is a better way to do leadership anyway. It actually gets you more respect, which you would think it would be the opposite, but it's actually when you're authentic, you get more respect.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

Yeah. And it, you know, that old school approach just perpetuates that narrative, like the it's my way or the highway, right? Where as I've found, especially as you start to lead millennials and the generations that follow, you need to apply so much more buy-in and consensus building. Everybody wants to know why. So it just set me up for success in terms of teaching me that lesson early.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Yeah. So let's go into the authenticity part because I think that this is, it sounds like such a critical part of your story. And when you take these moments like that where you're like, oh, that isn't authentic to me, how did you, because it in that moment, it might not have felt good, but you were like, I won't use that. But you weren't thinking, well, let me develop my authentic leadership style in this moment. You just kind of build it over the course of your career of like, this feels good, this doesn't. There's no rule book that you go by. How did you build that toolkit that you were talking about? Like, what were those moments that stand out to you that were like, this feels authentic to me, this feels very often not to me.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

You know, we chatted a bit before this call about kind of feeling, especially early on in a military career, feeling the need to blend in, right? Um, you want to stand out, right, in terms of like your evaluations and whatnot. But at the same time, it is a team-based organization. So you always feel the pressure to kind of just blend in and be part of the team, be one of the guys, right? And I think that serves you well for the junior part of your career. But as you start to step into those more senior leadership roles, those roles require more of you. And whether you're ready for it or not, it draws that leadership and that authentic leadership out of you. Um, so I'll say that's kind of a one part of that answer. I think secondly, you also have to see it in action from someone else. At least I did. Um, and I remember, so I didn't take command for the first time until I was a commander in 05. And that was back um in 2023. So I did a, I did a fleet up in my recruiting tour. So I was XO for 18 months, and then I was the commanding officer for 18 months. I had a chief recruiter, uh, a senior enlisted um career, you know, uh counselor, Navy chief. She was my subject matter expert on recruiting. Uh, and I had been there before she arrived. And uh her predecessor was very much, you know, by the book, very cut and dry, a little bit gruff, rough around the edges, right? A kind of a do what I say, say as I do. Um, and she just came in, you know, breath of fresh air with a completely different way of doing business. And she um she was so true to herself, you know, in a in a male-dominated space, she rolled in with her Hello Kitty notebook and her pink glitter. I love that. She led us from the bottom of the recruiting pack to the top as her most authentic self. And when she first arrived, I mean, I probably had those thoughts in the back of my head, right? Like she's not trying to fit in, right? Like that makes me a little uncomfortable because that's how I'm used to playing. But that her leading by example from that position and showing me you can do both, right? You can be true to who you are. And sailors respond well to that, right? The team responds well and you can be a professional at the same time. It was a great, I had I had to see it in action to truly believe it.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

And it's it's contradictory to everything that you believe. Like it's until you see somebody with a Hello Kitty notebook, you're like, hold on. What? Yep. And I think embracing what makes you different in a world that represents trying to stay the same. Like there's a standard, and the standard can be you can be professional and still be yourself. Yes. And I think that that's a reminder of that throughout your career. Cause and you don't know what that looks like until you see it in person. Yes. Yeah. How do you try to portray? That today. How do you try to portray that authenticity so that you can be that role model for others?

SPEAKER_02 22:05

Yeah. I think it's the transition and truly embracing it, like that transition from being part of the team to truly standing out and being, and not in a showy way, but again, not being afraid to be my true self, then empowers my team to be the very same way. And I see it in action, right? It's like I know that I can be that chief recruiter that she was to me to somebody else and show them, no, no, no, you you can be powerful. You you can command a room and run a team and still be very, very true to who you are. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

Yeah. Do you have a moment where you reflect upon where you had to bring out your authentic self, your authentic leadership, and it worked really well for you? Do you have kind of that story that you can share to show an example of what that could look like while still having a command presence and either showing discipline, whatever that might look like?

SPEAKER_02 23:02

Yeah. So when I was a very junior 04, a lieutenant commander, I was selected to uh become the aide for the Secretary of the Navy. Cool. Yeah, the most senior civilian in our service. Um, so I was gonna be kind of his his right hand man for a couple of years. And um, he brought me into that team. It was a very small team, uh, very tight knit, very high performing. It was definitely a perform or get fired kind of environment, just in the way that the the job and what was expected of him did not allow for any kind of incompetence or you know, being being slow to pick up the the the pack, right? And and and carry away.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

It's a high standard to be on his team, high standard, high stakes meet meet that standard to make sure that you can keep up with the pace that it is. It's just a very high-pace, high-demanding job.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

Yes. And if you've ever done time in the Pentagon, um, like done time is absolutely the right description. Um, you know, it is any job there is a high pressure, high-stakes environment. So spent three years with him uh in the Pentagon, traveling the world. And I remember when I first got there, again, my my nature is to be very introverted, but that was very much a small alpha team, big personalities. You know, everyone's traveled together. So they're telling jokes and telling stories, and that's that is just not me. And so I remember really feeling uncomfortable and shaky and doubting myself in that job.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Um, but there was a member on that team who I think he sensed, he saw himself and me and kind of sensed that I was struggling and said, Hey, you just need you are, you are your most effective when you are, you know, again, true to yourself when you operate for a place of authenticity. You can be, you know, the quiet, calm presence in the midst of this storm and chaos, right? And I needed that, you know. He actually recommended to me the book Quiet by Susan. Yeah, yeah, that's what I think. I recommend all the time because I think everybody assumes there's a lot of assumptions about the military, right? Everybody assumes that we're all extroverted, right? We're all very loud and decisive. And that's not the case. Most, if you actually, you know, pull the data, most military members, military officers are our eyes, right? They're introverted. And so to me, this was a great, it was a great read on um understanding myself, seeing so much of myself in that book and understanding um, you know, through that book how to navigate in a world of extroverts. Um and it's a great read, whether you're an introvert or extrovert, you know, it shows extroverts how to then interact with somebody who is a little bit more internal. And again, it's drawing that distinction between it's not necessarily about being the loudest or the quietest, it's it's where you draw energy from, right? And so to me, on those long road trips, I took the time that I needed to recharge my own internal battery. Cause if not, I was not operating at my best. So I think again, it was just a great lesson in being true to myself, even when asked to perform at a very high level in a team of folks whose personalities were very different from random.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

And what's funny is that they probably really appreciated you being that calm presence. They're like, we needed somebody who could dial it down for us a little bit. Because if we're heightened and she's heightened, then we're all gonna be losing our minds. Yes. Yeah. I love that you brought that up because there's a big thing of understanding yourself and understanding whether you're an introvert or extrovert. And obviously, there's moments where people are introverted and extroverted in different scenarios, like that. It's understanding who you are and what you need to recharge. Because as somebody who's, I don't know, they call it an omnivert or whatever it is, where you're like, it depends on the situation. I I can be extroverted, I can be introverted, but I've noticed I lean towards more introverted, which I thought was the opposite. So I recharge so much better when I'm by myself. Yes. And just like relaxing and doing what I know will recharge me. And I've accepted that about myself at this point. Yeah. It took a lot of acceptance though, because you feel like you need to go out to dinner, do all the things, and feel that need to go. And I imagine being on a team like that, you guys are out on the road all the time. So the expectation is to go out to dinner, is to bond, is to be with one another. And it must have been hard to fight the urge to fill that need that they desired and to fill the need that you needed. So to align with your values and your authentic self and figure out what you actually needed in that moment.

SPEAKER_02 27:38

Yeah. And you realize, you know, it's it's nice to as you kind of progress through the ranks and you realize, you know, with rank comes a bit more agency, right? Like there are a lot of those dinners as a as a junior officer I couldn't skip out on, right? But now leading a team where I'm the senior person, like my team very much knows. Like I go hard all day, but when I am home, when I'm home for the evening or when I am working out at the gym in the morning, like that's my protected space. And they don't, they know not to expect anything from, of course, you know, unless it's an emergency during during those times. But again, a lot of the like command social stuff, I just um, you know, I participate in based on my comfort level, not theirs.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Yeah. Yeah. And there's so in the military, there's so many expectations of like doing the things. And it's interesting to see as you move up in rank what actually people do say yes to and no to, and how you can maneuver through that to be true to yourself. When talking about the story of you or your experience on that team for the Secretary of the Navy, and you're talking about doubting yourself, a lot of people refer to that like as imposter syndrome in some sort of way. I personally don't know what it's like to not experience imposter syndrome. It is just one of those things that I've learned to push through. But I'd love to hear kind of your perspective on imposter syndrome, maybe that you felt in that moment and what that kind of meant to you.

SPEAKER_02 29:00

Yeah, it's definitely right, one of those buzzwords these days. And I think back in 2014, when I was in that job specifically, there wasn't a word for it. And so I just felt like I feel anytime I walk into a new job, which is unsure and a bit nervous, right? Until you until you start doing the thing and then you figure it out. I was just doing a midterm counseling session with one of my junior officers today, and she was talking about struggling with imposter syndrome. And that's what I said. I said, Hey, we we all struggle with it, right? Uh, male, female, seasoned, non-seasoned, junior, senior. I I think that is just it's human nature, right? So I just I've really started to tackle it in terms of, you know, I think everybody thinks that you need to have experience to do the thing, right? And what I have found is you do the thing and then you gain the experience, right? And until that, until you have that experience, you do feel like a bit of an imposter and an outsider. And I think that's normal and natural. So I think talking about it in a way that we all acknowledge out loud that for the most part, by and large, we all feel it and that it's okay. Uh, and then you just kind of push through it, right? I I have found that in those moments that have been most pivotal in my career, it's when those voices of doubt kind of really shout the loudest. Yes. But to me, I've I've I've chosen to look at that as like, hey, that means I'm getting closer to what I'm supposed to do, I'm getting it right, right? Because I'm pushing the boundaries, I'm getting a little bit uncomfortable. And the more times you do that, I think that the more success you have.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

And that's so true. Because I think especially in the last year, I've noticed that when those voices of like, oh no, you need to shrink or push away from whatever this is like challenging you, that that means I actually need to lean more in. And I'm like, dang it, I would just love to like curl up on the couch and not deal with this right now. But it sounds like this is something I actually need to be pushed into. Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

That's definitely a lesson I've learned this past year too, is I think we all think that the thing that we're supposed to be doing, like the path is just gonna unfold before us with no stumbling blocks. And I I have found that nothing is further from the truth, right? You really do need to, if if you have that feeling in your gut that this is your thing, you're gonna face adversity and challenges and stumbling blocks, and you should expect them up front and then navigate accordingly.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

If you have smooth sailing, then you're not in the right seat. Like I didn't mean to add in like maybe an addict. No, I loved it. But uh, like if you're doing, if there's no obstacle in your path, then you're probably not on a path that is actually going to help you grow and to be the best version of yourself. You're probably just like flying by and just along for the ride.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

Absolutely. Like I always say that I'd rather be the little fish in the big pond than the big fish in the little pond, right? I want to be stretched, I want to be uncomfortable. And to me, that's a true sign of growth as a leader.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

Yes. Do you ever notice that? Because you just talked about your gut, like it sounds like you use your instincts and your intuition a bit throughout your career. What about those moments in leadership? Because you talked a little bit about being your authentic self. And earlier in your career, like that moment didn't feel authentic to me. I've noticed that when my gut is like reacting a lot, that there's something I need to take care of when it comes to leading somebody. How do you navigate those moments when it comes to listening to your gut, not feeling like you're in the place, uh kind of that impostor of like, how do I lead in this moment while pushing through it?

SPEAKER_02 32:30

Yeah, I think we all have these ideals in our mind about leaders and like, oh, they've got it all figured out. So when you're in a position of leadership, you're like, oh, I should have it all figured out, right? This should come naturally to me. This should come easily to me. Somebody trusted me enough to put me in this position. Uh, I should have it figured out. But what I have found is authenticity, leading authentically feels messy in the moment. And it should, right? You know, I and I have found that I have connected the the more authentic I become and genuine and operating from a place of just be, I've really worked a lot this last year on being less scripted, right? Like if I'm giving, if I'm speaking in public, meeting with my team, I really try to draw less on notes and just speak from the heart, right? Because I used to think, again, it was all about being perfect and getting a particular, you know, speech or talk right, but it's it's not. What resonates is, and you can tell when you're engaging and you're looking somebody in the eye and they're nodding and you're getting that feedback, right? That you've you've struck a chord somewhere. And so to me, yeah, it's tough. Like as type A, as a perfectionist, that often feels messy in execution. You're like, man, I wish I would have said that differently. But then when you go and get feedback, they're like, no, that, you know, that that really landed with me. And that's what I found. Like, if it's if something doesn't go perfectly, it's okay. You can you can dust yourself off and and do it better next time. But what is important is not necessarily always what you say or what you do, but it's how you make people feel.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Ah, that's the best. That's the best. And it's so true. It's so true. I love emphasizing that to people as well. And it's just like making sure it I mean, what you just said. I can't state it any better than what you just did. I love to transition a little bit into fitness. Because you have a fitness journey that you've also had alongside of this, and it seems like it plays into a lot of what you're talking about when it comes to being authentic and just building that confidence. Why don't you go a little bit into that journey of the fitness and how it's kind of built?

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Yeah, thank you. Next to leadership is absolutely my favorite thing to talk about. So uh yeah, I I've always been into athletics, right? I grew up swimming competitively in high school. I rode crew at the Naval Academy. When I was um, again, kind of going through my JO tours, I was really into running marathons, training for marathons, half marathons, triathlons, all the thons. And I just got to a place, you know, probably in my mid 30s, where I was just like, man, I am putting in all this work and my body just doesn't seem to reflect in the mirror back to me all that hard work that I'm putting in. Right. And so um I found myself right ahead of my 40th birthday out in Hawaii during COVID, during the pandemic, and all the gyms were closed. So I was up at the base gym early one morning and had to go around back to kind of grab some equipment and found a bunch of young Marines who were working kettlebells and pull-ups, um, you know, just really kind of bare bones equipment and really all we could do in that environment. So I jumped on in with that group and it was really the first time I had always uh lifted occasionally, like strength training was part of my fitness routine, but it wasn't at the forefront. And this was the first time where I really placed the emphasis on lifting and lifting heavy. And I finally started to see the results that I had always been looking for in my body, especially when I paired it with the right diet. So it was right around that time someone had asked me when things were starting to kind of open back up, hey, have you ever thought about competing? Um, and I had never, I didn't know anything about bodybuilding, the sport of bodybuilding at the time. But I learned a little bit about it. I met with a local coach. He said, Yep, I think we can put you on a plan to get you on stage in a couple months. It was really, Sarah, just a like build your best body at 40 bucket list item. Um, but when I stepped on that stage, I knew like the bug had bitten, right? I loved I had I loved the process of training. I loved, again, the the diet, the nutrition, the discipline. I think it was one of the you know huge reasons that I gravitated towards Annapolis, right? Early on is I just love structure and discipline. I thrive in that environment. Like I feel like the more parameters that I can place on my life, the the freer I am to operate within it. So bodybuilding, yeah, has just fundamentally changed um, you know, my physical health, my mental health. I am such a firm believer that if if you um if you look good, you feel good, um, you operate at a different level when you're, you know, more comfortable in your own skin. And it's just been really fun, especially, you know, I kind of stumbled into bodybuilding around the same time I stumbled into Navy recruiting. And it's been really nice to align those two passions, right? I was able in Nashville to kind of really pair up the fitness community that I was a part of with some of the marketing and advertising and recruiting we were doing in the Nashville area. And um again, it was a great lesson in, you know, letting my team in on that process, right? All that hard work I was putting in. I think before it felt very personal to me, like a very personal side of my life. But as I started to share, you know, as I started to be vulnerable and authentic, like it really resonated with my team and they just really cheered me on in a big way and were part of that journey. And it inspired them. You know, we started doing different competitions at work and we put up a pull-up bar and it just uh we did a biggest loser competition. It just really had this ripple effect and allowed me to feel like every day when I showed up at the office, and and I brought all of that down here to Pensacola with me. Every day when I show up, I get to do, you know, the two things that I love, which is lead sailors and and incorporate my passion for fitness into the way I lead. Um, so it's truly been a blessing.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

That's so I love that you brought that up because when you are in the military, it becomes a lot of your identity. And so it's hard to figure out who you are in addition to. Like you can be this and that. Bringing that all together and then sharing that is I think that's true leadership, is figuring out what that is for you and bringing people along for the ride. It's something that I wish I saw more of, but I am seeing more of it now. Like I think it there's like a wave that's happening where people are starting to understand bringing in that authentic self. The one thing I'm noticing as a theme throughout your stories is you have found people that you have either looked up to or wanted to be surrounded by, and you surrounded yourself with those people to make yourself better. Yeah. And that's really cool to see that as a theme in your story and shows who you are where it's you want to be the best version of yourself. And what does that look like? And you're like, well, those people are lifting heavy things. I want to lift heavy things too. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 39:34

Yeah, exactly right. Yeah. You know, I had that bullet bar um right outside of my office at the schoolhouse uh it here in Pensacola. You know, I have sailors come out every morning at nine and they challenge me. But I always say, right, because that's not everybody's thing. I say it's not about the pull-up, right? It's about committing to doing like one hard thing first thing in the morning, you know, first thing in your day. And the rest of the day is just easier. You feel so accomplished. You feel um like you've really done something and you've challenged yourself. And it's so to me, it's it's not about the pull-up, right? It's about finding that thing that makes you your one percent better every single day.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

Isn't did you come up with that? Or is that I swear I've heard that somewhere else too, but that's amazing. I love that one percent better. It's uh those little guy who's like, I always give myself, I'm telling myself to do 20 push-ups, but then I'll do that one more. Like I'll do 21. And that one, that one more thing. Yeah, that.

SPEAKER_02 40:26

Yeah, and my let. I yes, I have listened to the same podcast, read the same book. Yes, yeah, the one one more theory or something.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

So it's like the one thing that really challenges yourself and makes yourself better. Yeah. So good. Yeah. Um, can you describe a little bit about what you do now and uh how you're leading your team right now? Like what's your leadership style?

SPEAKER_02 40:48

Yeah. So again, I was introduced to Navy recruiting uh back in Nashville. Um, so I ran a recruiting district. We covered uh Tennessee and the six states that surrounded it. Um, so really large recruiting territory. And I just found that I loved the, you know, the art and science of recruiting, right? And really developed leading a team that had to really hone those interpersonal skills to sell our service to young folks across the country. And to me, I'm so thankful for what the Navy has given me. I love to pay it forward. So when I was fortunate enough to be selected for 06, this was one of the options. And in my mind, it was the only option. So I currently I'm dual-handed. I run the uh Navy Recruiting Schoolhouse, Navy Recruiting Orientation Unit, Noru, down here in Pensacola. And so we bring roughly, you know, 2,000 students in every single week. We're teaching recruiting basics all the way to seasoned, experienced recruiting leaders. You know, we're kind of that center of excellence where they come at different touch points in their career. We remind them what right looks like. Uh, we teach them all the latest and greatest tactics and techniques, and then we send them back to their recruiting districts so they can continue to do that work. I also, so our administrative headquarters is in Millington, Tennessee. So we've got a two-star admiral who works up there, and I am uh dual-hated as his director of training. So I run the continuum of training for all of Navy recruiting. So not just what we're teaching at the schoolhouse, but how we make sure it works, which is through uh an annual inspection of those recruiting districts, and then really taking all that feedback and lesson learn and moving them right back into our doctrine and policy and teaching at the schoolhouse. So it's been really fun to be a part of.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

What would you say your leadership style is at this moment? Trust based.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

So I always uh yeah, I always, and I don't know if that's a style, I made that up on the fly, but that's always when my team, I have new check-ins and they ask me, you know, what I expected of them, I really just try and talk about one thing and that's trust, right? Uh, I love the book Leaders Eat Last by Simon Sinek. And it's that mentality, right? That in small, high-performing teams, the teams that truly get it right, you don't have to earn trust. Like trust is given to you on day one because you are a member of that team and of that family. And that's how I treat each and every one of my sailors, both staff and students. Recruiting is a more, you know, senior sailors game in the Navy. You have to be screened and selected to get there. So I'm fortunate that I get folks who are driven and you know, who want to be there. So I always tell them like, I empower you to be a professional adult and leader in this organization. And my trust is yours to lose. And and there have only been, you know, a very few occasions where that has backfired and folks do lose trust, right? And then you have to take the appropriate actions. But I never make folks feel like they have to pay to play. You get the trust from day one. And I've found that to be a very empowering tactic and really truly just encouraging my team to be part. The solution, not just the problem, right? Um, if they're gonna identify a need or an area for improvement in the organization, then it's incumbent upon them to bring it up with a solution attached to it. Um, because that's what we do as leaders. We solve problems.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

And if it you're just bringing up a problem, you're just complaining. Correct. Correct. Yes. Uh, I love that mirror. And trust is so important. It is the foundation for leadership. It is the foundation for almost everything. And a lot of what you talked about earlier when it comes to authenticity and vulnerability is on the foundation of trust.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

And that creates respect in the long run.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

Is there a question that you wish I would have asked you?

SPEAKER_02 44:40

You know what, Sarah, we talked about in terms of authentic leadership back when we took our earlier call. Kind of the way that I see leadership trending in terms of, I think right now we're in a really polarized and kind of divided society, right? You're either for a certain issue or not. Anyways, it's a tough place to navigate. And I do think that we will see that pendulum start to swing back in the other direction, right? And I do feel like there is a groundswell building in terms of a real need for female energy in positions of leadership. And I say energy because I don't necessarily mean it has to be a female in that role, but there are certain skills that we are particularly good at bringing to the table, like consensus building and just looking at the long-term solutions and impact and really leading with emotional intelligence and the trust that we just talked about. I'm really excited for what's ahead because I just think there is so much potential for folks who carry those traits and possess those traits that maybe have lied dormant for the past few years to really come in and step into their true leadership potential. So, not a question that you didn't ask, but just something that I'm really excited about as I think about what's next for me.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

And that is very interesting because we talked about kind of blending in and then being your authentic self. So it's almost like now we're at a place where women do we just think a little bit differently than men. There's nothing wrong or right about either way. It's just there's a different way with that we think. And we need both. I think that's the point. Right. And we need there's a reason that we have both. Yes. And there's a good combination all around. And so it's about us leaning into that authentic characteristic that we carry and kind of bringing that to the table as well. Very good point. I love that you brought that up. Would you like to do a lightning round with me? I'd love to. So on most of my interviews, I've just been closing with a few like lightning round questions to get to know the guests a little bit more and to kind of share a little bit in a couple minutes. Are you ready? I'm ready. Let's go. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 47:03

What's your favorite coffee order? Okay, so I love at Starbucks um a venti iced coffee, light almond milk, sugar-free vanilla syrup.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

Is it iced or hot? Did you say iced? Iced. Yes. Ice. Very particular. It's a very Florida thing, too. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I'm a queen of the iced coffees these days. So you brought up Quiet as a book that you would reference before. What is a favorite book overall, fiction or nonfiction? Nonfiction.

SPEAKER_02 47:32

I I read predominantly nonfiction. The other book that I love that is kind of a counterpoint to Quiet is Relentless by Tim Grover. Okay. Yeah. He was um Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant's coach. And it just for me, those two books like truly summarize who I am as a leader, right? Because I am a bit more quiet and reserved. I draw energy from my alone time. I'm very thoughtful, but I'm also really hungry. Um, and I have a work ethic that just won't quit. And when you read Relentless, like when I read Quiet, I'm like, oh, that's me. And then when I read Relentless, I'm like, that's me too. Um, so it was nice to see both facets of my personality kind of played out across those two books. I will definitely put that on my list.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

I don't think I've heard about that book. Okay. Yeah, mine's an even better audiobook. Listen. Okay. I love audiobooks. I've been listening to listening to a lot of them. What is your favorite type of vacation?

SPEAKER_02 48:32

So I will just brag on my husband a little bit. Um, I just celebrated a birthday this last weekend. He surprised me with a bucketless birthday weekend. I, for whatever reason, I think it was through maybe a like a junior high school book report, but I've loved manatees my entire life. So Derek planned a weekend in Homer Sassa Springs right outside of Clearwater. And we went and swam with the manatees.

SPEAKER_00 48:56

Oh, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 48:57

Yeah, it was so special. Um, it felt like a real full circle moment. They're just such a you know gentle creature, and it was just such a peaceful and perfect way to celebrate a milestone birthday. And um, I love trips like that. We've been blessed to live, you know, in Hawaii um and and here in Pensacola. So we get plenty of beach time. The tropical, all-inclusive vacation is not necessarily our thing. If we're gonna travel, we want to go experience something, try something new. And so to me, it's always the more kind of active, experiential uh vacation that is the most appealing.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

And they're really the cutest animals, especially if you get to watch them eat. They're so cute.

SPEAKER_02 49:38

Yeah. Yeah. It was very special.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

Um, awesome. Well, also happy birthday.

SPEAKER_02 49:42

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 49:43

I always love hearing what people are enjoying right now, yeah, especially when it comes to books, because usually I take these book recommendations and then add them to my list.

SPEAKER_02 49:51

So really I'm also reading right now uh Playing Big by Tara Moore. Very good, very good. I'm only about a quarter of a way through it, but I highly recommend it. I think it's right in your wheelhouse.

SPEAKER_01 50:03

Yeah. Added to the list for sure. As we kind of close out this interview, is there one piece of advice that you would like to give to the audience based on your experience in leadership and your career that you think would be really helpful for them as they grow in their leadership journey?

SPEAKER_02 50:20

Yeah, I think it's tough to try and summarize everything that we talked about over this last hour in a in a you know tidy little package. But I think there's there's something to be said about doing the hard thing, right? Whether it's pushing up against that voice inside of you or getting up on the bullet bar every morning, doing the hard thing for me has always paid dividends. It's uncomfortable in the moment, but the long-term gains are incredible. Um, and then I think the second piece is just the authenticity. It's it's really where I'm kind of focused on right now in terms of my own leadership development and the development of my team. But I have seen such just positivity and goodness come from leading with what's inside here, uh, not always with what's inside here.

SPEAKER_01 51:05

And understanding that and embracing it, even when it feels like really loud. You're like, I just gotta do it. I just gotta do it. Well, thank you, Lacey, so much for coming on the show. It was a joy to talk to you. I'd love to talk to you again and hear more about your journey. But thanks for coming on. Yeah, thank you for having me, Sarah. Thanks for listening to another episode of Lead Into It. If you enjoyed this episode, it would mean a lot to me if you would leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify to help future listeners. If you want to learn more about the podcast or me, go to leadintoit.co, that's leadintoit.co. Thanks again.